Is Religious Addiction real??????

[JFrankA]

Recently, I posted a forum topic titled "Is sexual addiction real?"

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99308

I got wonderful responses but in the end, I still say it's a subjective issue. Taking that one step further, and drawing on the information provided by that forum, I will now say that the country is in the grips of an epidemic of Religious Addiction.

Think about it, Religious Addiction can make people:
1. Ignore the scientific facts and proof (therefore, the sufferer lives in a fantasy world)

2. Can break up marriages (if one partner doesn't believe what the addicted person does)

3. Harm children (make the parents punish their children for reasons of not feeding their addiction, or not allowing children to go to the doctor because of belief in their addiction, etc.)

4. Be more beligerent to their coworkers and friends (again, if they don't believe what the addicted person believes)

5. Interferes with work (taking a day off or going away on non-break times to pray)

6. Can be harmful to the sufferer (denying natural bodily functions, such as sex, or even harming yourself in the name of the addicted religion's god).

All in all, I'd say this country is more religiously addicted than sexually addicted. And it's time we start a movement to make people realize their addiction!! The term "sexual addiction" is being thrown about like a baseball. It's time that "religious addiction" is thrown around just as much. It's just as dangerous, and much, much more rapant.

.......Your thoughts?

 

[JFrankA]

I hate to bump my own thread, but I'd really like your opinion on this....

 

[rcronk]

I posted something about this here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2973070&postcount=643

I have worked in 12-step programs for substance abuse and sexual addiction and all three types of addiction look identical to me (substances, sexual, religious). I'm a religious person and am interested in how people can be addicted to religion. I happen to believe that most religions have some false doctrines in them that allow their members to become addicted to them in various ways and in varying degrees. It's important to me to not fall into such addictions in my search for truth.

By the way, sexual addiction is one of the trickiest addictions I've seen. It ends up being a substance addiction in many ways because the addicts become dependent upon the adrenaline, testosterone, and about four other hormones/chemicals that are released - so they produce their own drugs. These drugs have narrowing effects on the mind - blocking out morality, family, religious beliefs, even time itself. In the wrong context, these can be destructive. In the right context, they can have a good effect. See "Pornography:The Drug of the New Millennium" for more research in this area.

All of these addictions mask underlying problems, which, if not resolved, tend to trap people in the addictions in various ways. In my experience, if a person is dedicated to rigorous self-honesty and has trust in something true to grab onto instead of the addiction itself, and the junk that's being covered up by the addiction is cleared out and resolved, people can and do have great success in being freed from the addictions. It takes a long time and a lot of patience though.

I'm not an expert in any of this, I just have my own experience and the experiences of the hundreds of people I've worked with over the years who have also struggled in overcoming these addictions.

 

[T-Diddy]

Disclosure: I am a theistic person, and I have a post-grad degree in engineering. I don't feel the need to try to reconcile Genesis with science by refuting one or the other.

I would tend to think "religious addition" is a bit of an overstatement. It doesn't quite fit the bill of a typical addiction, in that most people won't get classical withdrawal symptoms when they are denied admission at their church or bible group.

People are heavily dependent on it, to be sure, but what's how is religion any more to blame for scientific futility then Null Physics, for instance? See the thread on it if you doubt me.

That said, I've actually seen some studies floating around suggesting that religious devotion is hereditary, perhaps genetic in nature. Interesting concept.

 

[tracer]

A successful religion is a successful meme. It has the ingredients necessary for the listener to believe it and copy it into his/her own consciousness, and to then spread it to others. If such ingredients have to hijack the addiction mechanism to do so, they will.

 

[JFrankA]

All of these addictions mask underlying problems, which, if not resolved, tend to trap people in the addictions in various ways. In my experience, if a person is dedicated to rigorous self-honesty and has trust in something true to grab onto instead of the addiction itself, and the junk that's being covered up by the addiction is cleared out and resolved, people can and do have great success in being freed from the addictions. It takes a long time and a lot of patience though.

I have to agree with you there. (I didn't get a chance to read your post from the link, sorry, I'm at work.. ) I believe that addiction to things like food, sex, religion, video games, bowling, television, whatever is just a symptom of something else going on. Something is missing in a person's life, something is buried, whatever.

I still stand by that fact that this kind of addiction is mostly subjective. There are extermes where it's obvious, but for the most part, it's a point of view thing. I mean, if one person goes to church every Sunday, donates 10% of his/her pay into the collection plate, and prays once a day, one person might say she's addicted but another might say that person isn't religious enough...

Drugs are a different story because they really do alter body chemisty. Now the "self-alteration" of body chemistry you were talking about is something, I think that the mind and body can correct itself with some will power (in the case of dieting, for example). But drugs really do change the body.

Anyway, my point is simply this: I've been told that I'm a sex addict, by my ex-wife and also by various religious people.

But seeing how religion makes people feel, (rapture and "speaking in tongues"), how they achieve that state (I really believe that praying is a form of conditioning), etc, etc, it just makes me feel like when I'm being called a sex addict from a religious person, it's like a pot calling a kettle black.

 

[ravdin]

Your title raises a good question, but as a stylistic point I think you have too many question marks. There are six and I bet three would have done just as well.

 

[Acleron]

Lovely point, I always thought it was a disease, but addiction?
T-Diddy thinks withdrawal symptoms from religion are not classical, I'm not so sure withdrawal symptoms from any addiction are constant. All the other symptoms are there. At last! We don't have to convince them they are wrong, just create the equivalent of methadone or develop a cognitive behavioural course to correct them.

 

[Dancing David]

I posted something about this here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2973070&postcount=643

I have worked in 12-step programs for substance abuse and sexual addiction and all three types of addiction look identical to me (substances, sexual, religious). I'm a religious person and am interested in how people can be addicted to religion. I happen to believe that most religions have some false doctrines in them that allow their members to become addicted to them in various ways and in varying degrees. It's important to me to not fall into such addictions in my search for truth.

By the way, sexual addiction is one of the trickiest addictions I've seen. It ends up being a substance addiction in many ways because the addicts become dependent upon the adrenaline, testosterone, and about four other hormones/chemicals that are released - so they produce their own drugs.

That is true of most mood altering behaviors, they release adrenaline or endorphins, or they are used to distract from anxiety.

These drugs have narrowing effects on the mind - blocking out morality, family, religious beliefs, even time itself. In the wrong context, these can be destructive. In the right context, they can have a good effect. See "Pornography:The Drug of the New Millennium" for more research in this area.

That is a little psychodynamic for me, I would say that those internal substance may reduce impulse control or impair judgement.

All of these addictions mask underlying problems, which, if not resolved, tend to trap people in the addictions in various ways.

true for many addicts but not all, there can be issues which feul the addiction, but there is also classical conditioning and other factors.

In my experience, if a person is dedicated to rigorous self-honesty and has trust in something true to grab onto instead of the addiction itself, and the junk that's being covered up by the addiction is cleared out and resolved, people can and do have great success in being freed from the addictions. It takes a long time and a lot of patience though.

I like the Big Choice myself, you have to choose to not use.

I also like relapse prevention.
1.Take care of yourself.
2.When at risk: get out , get help.

I'm not an expert in any of this, I just have my own experience and the experiences of the hundreds of people I've worked with over the years who have also struggled in overcoming these addictions.

Me too.

 

[Dancing David]

Disclosure: I am a theistic person, and I have a post-grad degree in engineering. I don't feel the need to try to reconcile Genesis with science by refuting one or the other.

I would tend to think "religious addition" is a bit of an overstatement. It doesn't quite fit the bill of a typical addiction, in that most people won't get classical withdrawal symptoms when they are denied admission at their church or bible group.

There are behavioral criteria that are the hallmarks of addiction. Withdrawl is not a needed component.

 

[Dancing David]

I have to agree with you there. (I didn't get a chance to read your post from the link, sorry, I'm at work.. ) I believe that addiction to things like food, sex, religion, video games, bowling, television, whatever is just a symptom of something else going on. Something is missing in a person's life, something is buried, whatever.

that is true for some addicts but not all.

I still stand by that fact that this kind of addiction is mostly subjective. There are extermes where it's obvious, but for the most part, it's a point of view thing. I mean, if one person goes to church every Sunday, donates 10% of his/her pay into the collection plate, and prays once a day, one person might say she's addicted but another might say that person isn't religious enough...

It depends if they meet the behavioral criterai.

Drugs are a different story because they really do alter body chemisty. Now the "self-alteration" of body chemistry you were talking about is something, I think that the mind and body can correct itself with some will power (in the case of dieting, for example). But drugs really do change the body.

Anyway, my point is simply this: I've been told that I'm a sex addict, by my ex-wife and also by various religious people.

the question is not what they think, but what you think.

But seeing how religion makes people feel, (rapture and "speaking in tongues"), how they achieve that state (I really believe that praying is a form of conditioning), etc, etc, it just makes me feel like when I'm being called a sex addict from a religious person, it's like a pot calling a kettle black.

A-diction means that you have acted against your own stated intention. That is a hall mark of addiction.

 

[Dancing David]

Lovely point, I always thought it was a disease, but addiction?
T-Diddy thinks withdrawal symptoms from religion are not classical, I'm not so sure withdrawal symptoms from any addiction are constant. All the other symptoms are there. At last! We don't have to convince them they are wrong, just create the equivalent of methadone or develop a cognitive behavioural course to correct them.

Addiction is not a disease, it is a behavioral disorder. It can be driven by biological factors.

 

[Dancing David]

here are the DSM-IV criteria for dependance,

substitute mood altering behavior for 'substance'
and mood change for 'intoxication'

A maladaptive pattern of substance use, leading to clinically significant impairment or distress, as manifested by three (or more) of the following, occurring at any time in the same 12-month period:

(1) tolerance, as defined by either of the following:
(a) a need for markedly increased amounts of the substance to achieve Intoxication or desired effect
(b) markedly diminished effect with continued use of the same amount of the substance

(2) Withdrawal, as manifested by either of the following:
(a) the characteristic withdrawal syndrome for the substance (refer to Criteria A and B of the criteria sets for Withdrawal from the specific substances)
(b) the same (or a closely related) substance is taken to relieve or avoid withdrawal symptoms

(3) the substance is often taken in larger amounts or over a longer period than was intended

(4) there is a persistent desire or unsuccessful efforts to cut down or control substance use

(5) a great deal of time is spent in activities necessary to obtain the substance (e.g., visiting multiple doctors or driving long distances), use the substance (e.g., chain-smoking), or recover from its effects

(6) important social, occupational, or recreational activities are given up or reduced because of substance use

(7) the substance use is continued despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent physical or psychological problem that is likely to have been caused or exacerbated by the substance (e.g., current cocaine use despite recognition of cocaine-induced depression, or continued drinking despite recognition that an ulcer was made worse by alcohol consumption)

 

[JFrankA]

Dancing David!!! Thank you, thank you!

I've been trying to find something that pins down addiction and your posts were what I was looking for.


..and Ravdin, you're absolutely right. I did over do the question marks....

 

[rcronk]

While I agree with a lot of what has been said, I think it's important not to get stuck in an association fallacy - thinking that all religious people are addicted to religion, or even that all religious belief is incorrect just because some is incorrect.It looks to me that you're trying to justify and defend yourself from the accusations of others. Let it go man - just let it go an move on. Holding on to resentment is a powerful addiction that most addicts find hiding just underneath their "surface" addiction. There are usually many layers of addiction underneath the top layer (substance, sex, etc.) but resentment is a killer. Holding onto resentments is like drinking poison and hoping it will kill the person you resent.

 

[JFrankA]

While I agree with a lot of what has been said, I think it's important not to get stuck in an association fallacy - thinking that all religious people are addicted to religion, or even that all religious belief is incorrect just because some is incorrect.

Actually, that's part of what I was trying to do. And sorry if I came off looking like a tool. I really am not, and I really wasn't trying to vindicate being called a sex addict.

The whole point of both threads for me was two-fold: 1) I wanted a clear definition of what it means when someone is addicted to "X". To me, (and I'm sorry if I sound elitist here, I don't mean to), all the answers I got until Dancing David's answer could be purely subjective. So I could apply it to literally anything and, depending on popular opinion, could be considered an addiction even if it is not.

As an example, (and a silly one, but this is to show what I mean): Let's say I am in a softball team in which no members bowl. So let's say my softball team go to the bowling alley and see these people bowl once a week or so. My softball team thinks that's fine. Then we meet a guy who practices bowling for hours a day. My team and I then can say "Oh, he has a bowling addiction!".
Just as the people bowling can turn around to my team and say "Well, you have a Softball Addiction!"

It bothered me that all this addiction stuff was based on subjective views and finger pointing. I was looking for something more concrete. Now I don't mean to say I didn't get wonderful answers, I did. You guys are really great at information and discussion. But I wanted something that I couldn't say "Yeah, Bowling is an addiction..."

2) I wanted an answer to the question that was posted. (And I'll admit to having too many question marks. ). Just to clarify, I should've continued the orginal thread and added the question "If sex addiction is real, wouldn't the 'other side of the coin', religious addiction be real too?"

Again, I'm sorry if I came across as someone resentful or full of anger. Rest assured, I am not. I do not hold on to anger or resentment for very long. It interferes with fun! But I really, really get tenatious to get a concrete answer.

And also, thank you for stating that, Rcronk. It needed to be said.

 

[Dancing David]

Please rememebr that 'substantial impaiment' means a real problem, nojust a little problem.

Not just being late for work, but loosing a job, not missing one rent payment but being homeless, that sort of thing.

I have met many people who engage in mood altering behaviors, religous addiction, I am not so sure.

I have known some people living with a major mental illness who were religously preoccupied.

 

[JFrankA]

Please rememebr that 'substantial impaiment' means a real problem, nojust a little problem.

Not just being late for work, but loosing a job, not missing one rent payment but being homeless, that sort of thing.

I have met many people who engage in mood altering behaviors, religous addiction, I am not so sure.

I have known some people living with a major mental illness who were religously preoccupied.

I understand that, and that's what I wanted to point out. The whole "it's an addiction when it interfers with your life" is so subjective. Losing a job, homeless, isn't subjective.

And if I may ask, taking it a step further, would "'substantial impaiment" also include being in said state (e.g. homeless and without a job) and have no desire to get out of said state?

 

[Dancing David]

That depends on the level of functioning required, many people in jail are institutionalized, they unfortunately can not function in a free enviroment and prefer a very structured one.
Being homeless has it's own set of functional skills as well, and some people enjoy the freedom, they are in the minority.

But again the functional impairment varies from person to person, repeated trips to jail and being chrononcally without a domicile are rather negative consequences for a behavior.

Unless you are an arhat wandering around in a primal state of mystic confusion.