Is Primal Therapy woo?

[noblecaboose]

The other day I was listening to one of my favorite local radio shows/podcasts, Berkeley Groks and they had as their guests the creators of so-called "Primal Therapy." This show I consider to be rather respectable and they typically have guests that are informative if often a little dry. These two people, Dr. Janov and his wife, claim that their "revolutionary" method is supported by recent science in neurology and psychology, but it sounds just like regression therapy to me. They also claim that John Lennon was one of their patients and that his therapy made it possible for him to write the Plastic Ono Band album. It all sounded a bit suspicious to me, especially when they started talking about how pain from your past can be "healed" by returning to that time and screaming it out. It further tickeled my skeptic antennae when they talked about how only their method was the right way and that unqualified people could seriously hurt someone. In short, in started to sound like a cult.

Has anyone else heard of these people? They claim to have done "double blind studies" but I don't quite see how that's possible with something like this. If anyone has heard of this, especially anyone in the psychological or neurological professions, I am extremely curious to know if their claims are supported or if they are as cultish as they sound.

 

[zooterkin]

Well, it's certainly been around for a long time (I'm sure I remember it being called Primal Scream Therapy), and the Lennon and Yoko link doesn't surprise me, but as to how effective it is or what studies have been done I have no idea.

 

[Jeff Corey]

The idea that Primal Therapy is anything more than BS is a real scream.

 

[Dogdoctor]

The philosophy behind primal therapy is woo. Do you any clue how to find the studies so we can examine them skeptically?

 

[noblecaboose]

The philosophy behind primal therapy is woo. Do you any clue how to find the studies so we can examine them skeptically?

That's what I was wondering. I would hope that there are some references on their sites (1, 2). I haven't had time to do the follow up research yet, but hopefully I will be able to this weekend. Between going to school and working full time, I barely have enough time to do my homework as it is.

 

[kellyb]

I don't think it's effectiveness has ever been properly studied. It sounds like a bunch of woo, though. My vote is 99.9% probability that it's pure woo.

 

[zooterkin]

I'll see your 99.9% and raise you .09%

 

[Kopji]

Whoa! must be true! Check out this testimonial from another satisfied and mentally stable customer:

After only one month of Primal Therapy, most of the physical pain I suffered was gone. I might add that this pain plagued me my whole life. I'm not certain when I stopped cringing at the sound of the phone and doorbell. I just noticed one day that I didn't do it anymore. Nowadays I'm simply curious to see who is there. I still don't like driving very much, but I'm no longer afraid to drive. These days I can look around in my office and see that it is in pretty good shape. It used to look like I'd thrown a hand grenade in here. I feel good almost every day and more often than not, I feel great. My relationship with my wife is many times better than it was before therapy. We now shower together every day. This might not seem like much to you, but we had never showered together in all the years of our marriage. It is now an event we both look forward to each day. We love to wash and pleasure each other. We have become very familiar with each other's bodies, which just makes good sense now we are older and more vulnerable to certain diseases. It also makes us closer than we have ever been. I'm much less scattered now and can read with full focus for hours at a time – and enjoy it...

 

[Jeff Corey]

See post #3. I have never seen this properly tested. If anyone can find some evidence, I'm open to reconsideration.
All it did for me is to fook up one of my favorite albums.
"Working class hero is something to be"
"Cod is a concept by which we measure our pain".

 

[kellyb]

I just spent quite a while looking for evidence that it works, and I'm not finding anything. I did find one paper that mentioned it:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/j72w75684005w761/

Must most psychotherapists remain as incompetent as they now are?

This paper was originally presented at the Symposium, Competence in Psychology: Hopeless Ideal or Trainable and Measurable Reality?, American Psychological Association Convention, Montreal, Sept. 2, 1980.

That would be an interesting fulltext to read...

 

[Moochie]

The other day I was listening to one of my favorite local radio shows/podcasts, Berkeley Groks and they had as their guests the creators of so-called "Primal Therapy." This show I consider to be rather respectable and they typically have guests that are informative if often a little dry. These two people, Dr. Janov and his wife, claim that their "revolutionary" method is supported by recent science in neurology and psychology, but it sounds just like regression therapy to me. They also claim that John Lennon was one of their patients and that his therapy made it possible for him to write the Plastic Ono Band album. It all sounded a bit suspicious to me, especially when they started talking about how pain from your past can be "healed" by returning to that time and screaming it out. It further tickeled my skeptic antennae when they talked about how only their method was the right way and that unqualified people could seriously hurt someone. In short, in started to sound like a cult.

Has anyone else heard of these people? They claim to have done "double blind studies" but I don't quite see how that's possible with something like this. If anyone has heard of this, especially anyone in the psychological or neurological professions, I am extremely curious to know if their claims are supported or if they are as cultish as they sound.

Check out the science behind it. That's right, there isn't any.

PT is New Age claptrap, despite Janov's devout wish to have it validated by science.

Lennon was a client, but not for very long. Remember, Lennon was also into the Maharishi for a while, and who knows what else. We were young, and we were searching...

The difference between a psychiatrist and a good listener is simply this: the psychiatrist is accountable, to a degree, and hence is unlikely to ravish you when you're most vulnerable. However, there have been rogue psychiatrists.

Contrast this with $cientology -- a real cult that practices psychiatry with absolutely no accountability, and you begin to get the lay of the land.

M.

ETA: I endured an Australian version of this scam in the late 70s. I've posted elsewhere in this forum about some of my experiences.

 

[Senex]

I'm a fan of the caboose. Anyone possessing a noble one has certainly caught my attention. OK, what are we talking about? Something about Primal Therapy. It's woo.

 

[Apathia]

The current woo-woo incrusted Massage Therapy opinion I've heard repeatedly about Primal Scream Therapy is that it gives a dramatic and exciting vent to pent up and repressed feelings, but does nothing in the long term for people holding onto past emotional trama. I'm told that it tends to "retramatize."

This opinion is from Massage Therapists who played with it and found it didn't really do anything or was counter-productive. It's dropped out of New Age popularity, but it may be making comeback the same way the Law of Attraction drivel keeps being recycled for the next generation of dupes.

People will pay big money for the opportunity to bawl like a baby or shout obscenities about their parents.

 

[Moochie]

The current woo-woo incrusted Massage Therapy opinion I've heard repeatedly about Primal Scream Therapy is that it gives a dramatic and exciting vent to pent up and repressed feelings, but does nothing in the long term for people holding onto past emotional trama. I'm told that it tends to "retramatize."

This opinion is from Massage Therapists who played with it and found it didn't really do anything or was counter-productive. It's dropped out of New Age popularity, but it may be making comeback the same way the Law of Attraction drival keeps being recycled for the next generation of dupes.

People will pay big money for the opportunity to bawll like a baby or shout obscenities about their parents.

Yep.

Don't they know they can come here and do it for free?

M.

 

[scratchy]

Anyone from Sweden may have heard of Flogstavrålet (the Flogsta scream). In the 70s primal scream therapy had its haydays, and a tradition developed in Flogsta, a part of the city of Uppsala: every evening at 10, from windows and balconys, people are screaming like raging maniacs. Continues still today, been there, heard it, done it! The buildings are all highrises with lots of student apartments, so the effect can be quite strong, especially to someone who didnt know and didnt expect it. I mean, lots of your neighbours near and far start screaming from their windows all at once, what will you think?

 

[Moochie]

Anyone from Sweden may have heard of Flogstavrålet (the Flogsta scream). In the 70s primal scream therapy had its haydays, and a tradition developed in Flogsta, a part of the city of Uppsala: every evening at 10, from windows and balconys, people are screaming like raging maniacs. Continues still today, been there, heard it, done it! The buildings are all highrises with lots of student apartments, so the effect can be quite strong, especially to someone who didnt know and didnt expect it. I mean, lots of your neighbours near and far start screaming from their windows all at once, what will you think?

They're not going to take it any more?

M.

 

[Pope130]

They also claim that John Lennon was one of their patients and that his therapy made it possible for him to write the Plastic Ono Band album.

I'm just amazed that they would site that album as proof that their therapy works.

Robert

 

[Gnu Ordure]

Originally Posted by noblecaboose
They also claim that John Lennon was one of their patients and that his therapy made it possible for him to write the Plastic Ono Band album.

I'm just amazed that they would site that album as proof that their therapy works.

Robert

You mean because it's not a very good album, Robert ?

Surely not, but tastes differ, I suppose.

Anyway, Janov wasn't sayng that his undoubted influence on the album was "proof that their therapy works" - just that it helped Lennon compose the album, which is true.

And given that 37 years later, the album is considered by Rolling Stone magazine to be the 22nd Greatest Album Ever Made, I think Janov is entitled to feel some degree of satisfaction about his contribution to it.

Personally, I love it, harrowing though it is in parts.

Gnu.

 

[c4ts]

Regression therapy? Famous successful clients? Sounds like Scientology to me.

 

[Tumblehome]

...In short, in started to sound like a cult.

I remember hearing about Primal Therapy in the 70's and casually dismissing it, but now, after reading the website, I can say...We're saved, saved, I tell you! The Second Coming has already happened in the person of Arthur Janov, if you can believe these rapturous testimonials to him on his website...

--You have selflessly lain the greatest gifts at the feet of mankind...

--…Your contribution to psychology is at the very least a part of what caused society to become more open…

--Would that the earth be fortunate enough to have Primal available to every inhabitant we as a species might survive.

​

Those aren't favourable comments from satisfied customers, they're cultish ravings of rabid followers. And even though John Lennon didn't finish his "treatment" and didn't seem interested in finishing it, Janov very unselflessly gets a lot of mileage out of his brief association with him.

There isn't a single indication of scientific merit for Primal Therapy on the website, but there are plenty of implications that there is, all worded to deflect potential legal action for making false claims:

--"...giving as much scientific and research basis to primal therapy (as a field) as possible…"

--"I like this inclusion of research findings from the neurobiological (or neurology) field…"

--"I will join the men and women from 21st century science and take part in this remarkable therapy, demonstrating the persistence and integrity of Dr. Janov."

​

Primal Therapy has the earmarks of a New Age "self-actualization" scheme. It targets those who are vulnerable and offers them a way out of their misery; it rejects traditional forms of sanctuary from the cruel world, such as, and especially, religion; and it implies that it has a scientific basis, therefore, it must be right. Behind it all is a megalomaniac with a whole swack of books and DVD's to sell. I'm surprised that anyone here, after reading their website, would even consider that there might be some validity to it.