Is North Korea a real thing?

The Charnel Expanse

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The Charnel Expanse
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Sometimes I can't help but think it's all one massive performance art-as-propaganda piece under the direction of the West to ensure that Communism remains a boogeyman 20+ years after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Everything about that country just seems so patently absurd to outsiders. Their ridiculous superhero origin stories concocted for their leaders. The other stories that leak out about the crazy eccentric behavior of Kim Jong Il. Their ostentatious displays of coordinated military power that turn out to be just for show when their missile tests inevitably fail. And now this stuff about their soccer team having been struck by lightning.

Hell, the very fact that a Stalinist regime could manage to last for over 60 years without any sort of reform is in itself nothing short of astounding.

All of it just seems like Poe's Law taken to the nth degree. A blatant parody of brutal Stalinist oppression cooked up for the consumption of Western audiences.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Everything about that country just seems so patently absurd to outsiders. Their ridiculous superhero origin stories concocted for their leaders.
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Pretty normal. Consider the number of kings nominaly related to gods.

The other stories that leak out about the crazy eccentric behavior of Kim Jong Il.
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In terms of absolute rulers he's not that eccentric.

Their ostentatious displays of coordinated military power that turn out to be just for show when their missile tests inevitably fail.
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Oh lots of countries have those. Only difference with north korea is that they have less to do with selling stuff. In any case North korean missile tests do okey when they don't get too ambitious. Their short and mid range stuff has a reasonable record.

And now this stuff about their soccer team having been struck by lightning.
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Look they needed an excuse and lack modern PR people.

Hell, the very fact that a Stalinist regime could manage to last for over 60 years without any sort of reform is in itself nothing short of astounding.
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There has been a fair bit of reform over the years. Small scale capitalism is usualy allowed these days. Mostly as a result of the 90s famines. The is also the issue that it is supported by china.

All of it just seems like Poe's Law taken to the nth degree. A blatant parody of brutal Stalinist oppression cooked up for the consumption of Western audiences.
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Questionable. In terms of opressiveness north korea may be little different from various other countries like equatorial guinea and saudi arabia. It's the degree of information control that is unusual.
 
I think your conspiracy theory has a kernel of truth to it. But instead of asking yourself what problems North Korea solves for the West, ask yourself what problems it solves for China.

On a related note, China's support is the reason behind the longevity of this particular Stalinist regime.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Sometimes I can't help but think it's all one massive performance art-as-propaganda piece under the direction of the West to ensure that Communism remains a boogeyman 20+ years after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Everything about that country just seems so patently absurd to outsiders. Their ridiculous superhero origin stories concocted for their leaders. The other stories that leak out about the crazy eccentric behavior of Kim Jong Il. Their ostentatious displays of coordinated military power that turn out to be just for show when their missile tests inevitably fail. And now this stuff about their soccer team having been struck by lightning.

Hell, the very fact that a Stalinist regime could manage to last for over 60 years without any sort of reform is in itself nothing short of astounding.

All of it just seems like Poe's Law taken to the nth degree. A blatant parody of brutal Stalinist oppression cooked up for the consumption of Western audiences.
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I've been there, albeit some years ago. I'm afraid it's real.:(
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
The other stories that leak out about the crazy eccentric behavior of Kim Jong Il.
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The stories that leak out about Kim Jong Il's personal behavior are about as reliable as tabloid celebrity gossip. To give one example:

- The DPRK government purchases various luxury goods that are used to secure the loyalty of the Pyongyang elite. One of these luxury goods is Hennessey cognac. Financial details of the DPRK's cognac buying were leaked, and apparently it spends at least $700,000 per year on the stuff.
- Chosun Ilbo or some other South Korean newspaper reports this as "Kim Jong Il spends $700,000 per year on cognac."
- This is then repeated by "expert analysts" in the US as "Kim Jong Il drinks $700,000 of cognac per year."

It's a pretty consistent pattern of credulity and distortion and I can give more examples if you want them. It's quite possible to believe that Kim is an absolute ruler, but not the hedonistic lunatic he's been portrayed as.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Sometimes I can't help but think it's all one massive performance art-as-propaganda piece under the direction of the West to ensure that Communism remains a boogeyman 20+ years after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Everything about that country just seems so patently absurd to outsiders. Their ridiculous superhero origin stories concocted for their leaders. The other stories that leak out about the crazy eccentric behavior of Kim Jong Il. Their ostentatious displays of coordinated military power that turn out to be just for show when their missile tests inevitably fail. And now this stuff about their soccer team having been struck by lightning.

Hell, the very fact that a Stalinist regime could manage to last for over 60 years without any sort of reform is in itself nothing short of astounding.

All of it just seems like Poe's Law taken to the nth degree. A blatant parody of brutal Stalinist oppression cooked up for the consumption of Western audiences.
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What's the question? I've seen North Korea from the South Korean side, so I know it's real. On the other hand, I have confessed repeatedly to being a paid agent of the New World Order regime.
 
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If the question is, "Do western media sensationalize the DPRK?" the answer is yes. The DPRK is a strict class society where quality of life ranges from comfortable to feral. Its class divisions have been made all the more severe by the lack of resources (such as farmland), by the collapse of its trade relations, and by a western blockade that for 20 years has done nothing to improve human rights.

I've already given the example of the south Korean rumor mill and its influence in the US. Here's another, the trailer for a film called The Red Chapel. "The Red Chapel" is about some Danish actors who enter the country on false pretenses as a cultural exchange mission, receive the standard tour of Pyongyang, and accomplish essentially nothing, aside from getting some footage that they can splice together with ominous voiceovers and subtitles. "Comedy in a place without without laughter" Wrong. "Art in a country that does not tolerate art." Wrong again. "Being human in a place that does not tolerate humans" Huh?

Or The Vice Guide to North Korea. It has its good moments, like sharing a drink and smoke with the guides, but aside from this it's a typical example of the "Pyongyang stage-set" cliche, where the westerner comes to believe that, not just the tourist attractions, but the the whole city of Pyongyang, subways and all, is a performance put on for his entertainment; not a place where people go about their lives. The BBC has promoted this line for years.
 
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Gazpacho said:
If the question is, "Do western media sensationalize the DPRK?" the answer is yes. The DPRK is a strict class society where quality of life ranges from comfortable to feral. Its class divisions have been made all the more severe by the lack of resources (such as farmland), by the collapse of its trade relations, and by a western blockade that for 20 years has done nothing to improve human rights.

I've already given the example of the south Korean rumor mill and its influence in the US. Here's another, the trailer for a film called The Red Chapel. "The Red Chapel" is about some Danish actors who enter the country on false pretenses as a cultural exchange mission, receive the standard tour of Pyongyang, and accomplish essentially nothing, aside from getting some footage that they can splice together with ominous voiceovers and subtitles. "Comedy in a place without without laughter" Wrong. "Art in a country that does not tolerate art." Wrong again. "Being human in a place that does not tolerate humans" Huh?

Or The Vice Guide to North Korea. It has its good moments, like sharing a drink and smoke with the guides, but aside from this it's a typical example of the "Pyongyang stage-set" cliche, where the westerner comes to believe that, not just the tourist attractions, but the the whole city of Pyongyang, subways and all, is a performance put on for his entertainment; not a place where people go about their lives. The BBC has promoted this line for years.
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I can't speak about these depictions of North Korea because I haven't seen many of them. It appeared to me that the OP had more to do with whether North Korea was a danger or if the danger was just invented to keep Americans on their toes about the "Communist boogeyman". Sounds pretty much like the 9/11 Truther line that really Islamic terrorism is a creation of the US government to feed their war machine and doesn't really exist at all.

So do I have you right? The North Korean state is no danger at all to anyone?
 
Gazpacho said:
Or The Vice Guide to North Korea. It has its good moments, like sharing a drink and smoke with the guides, but aside from this it's a typical example of the "Pyongyang stage-set" cliche, where the westerner comes to believe that, not just the tourist attractions, but the the whole city of Pyongyang, subways and all, is a performance put on for his entertainment; not a place where people go about their lives. The BBC has promoted this line for years.
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I appreciate you wanting to balance opinion on NK but when some of the most extreme stuff comes from their own news media it is hard to ignore. And how can anyone not get that impression of the subway - you are only allowed to go to 2 of 12 stations - Two stations that look good enough to be Donald Trump's bedroom
 
Gazpacho said:
No I'm not.
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I have lived in Japan and South Korea. In Japan, I played rugby with students from Chosan University who are descendants of North Korean workers in worldtime Japan. They say the same thing, as do ultra-Korean nationalists in South Korea who agitate for unification. That's why I ask. And interestingly, this sounds so much like the Truther claim that Islamic terrorism was made up by the CIA.

I don't think the problem is whether or not you agree with David Kang. The problem is whether North Korea poses a danger to South Korea and other states. It clearly does for some time to come, whether or not the travel shows and news depictions you refer to provide an accurate description.
 
Threat is partly independent from current intent.
The government, or the next one, could change its mind overnight and it would still have all the troops and military hardware.

It is because they are so unpredictable that people worry.
 
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