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Is Kenya becoming another Rwanda

Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
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I am not sure if a similar thread has already been started, but I have not found any.
According to the recent news, the death toll after the Kenyan elections is soaring rapidly, and the president already warns of a potential genocide.
Will Kenya become another Rwanda?
 
According to the recent news, the death toll after the Kenyan elections is soaring rapidly, and the president already warns of a potential genocide.
"The president"--according to the report of the EU's monitors--stole the election. The warning is therefore a trifle hollow coming from him.
 
I am not sure if a similar thread has already been started, but I have not found any.
According to the recent news, the death toll after the Kenyan elections is soaring rapidly, and the president already warns of a potential genocide.
Will Kenya become another Rwanda?
Let's see.

A few hundred dead in riots after the election, protesting the allegations of voting fraud, while the Rwanda body count was about half a million in response to the alleged assassination of the leader of the country, among a variety of other factors.

Are you spinning up your hype machine here?

Kenya is its own place, and yes, it has the potential to break along inter tribal, inter group lines and have a civil war.

On the bright side, it is a coastal nation, which means international relief will have an easier time getting there should the need arise.

DR
 
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Let's see.

A few hundred dead in riots after the election, protesting the allegations of voting fraud, while the Rwanda body count was about half a million in response to the alleged assassination of the leader of the country, among a variety of other factors.

Are you spinning up your hype machine here?

I wrote:
"Will Kenya become another Rwanda?"
Not
"Kenya will become another Rwanda"

"The president"--according to the report of the EU's monitors--stole the election. The warning is therefore a trifle hollow coming from him.

Yes.
I read that too
 
Now that we have some new information from four weeks ago when you first played chicken little, I mull over new developments and will answer you again:


Yes.

Whatever happens there will be similar but different. It is Kenya, not Rwanda, and it is coastal, not landlocked. It will return to Kenya, or become Kenya Prime, but it won't become Rwanda. Cookie cutters dont fit well.
Political and ethnic violence has killed 850 people in Kenya since Kibaki's disputed re-election on Dec. 27, a wave of instability that has shocked its neighbours and Western donors and battered its image as a stable trade and tourism hub.

"Kenyans are killing one another at an alarming rate and are putting the country in grave danger of civil war," said Jennifer Windsor, executive director of U.S.-based rights group Freedom House.
Gee, where is Oliver when you need him, crying out loud about American Fear Mongering? Oddly absent, eh?

Not sure how 805 people compares to a half a million or so, but then, in support of your panic, the unrest is relatively recent in comparable time scales. The potential remains for it all to go to crap. Note the significant international efforts, albeit slow, to try and stem the tide of decline. (That is what the bulk of your article covers: efforts at prevention.)

Whatever happens in Kenya, due to its size, is far more likely to be either benign in comparison, or, if all dice rolls come up badly, a mess that will dwarf Rwanda's intertribal war.

See again: Kenya is coastal, and thus more likely to be able to receive international support (should that arise as a mitigating factor) than a landlocked, low-to-no infrastructure nation like Rwanda.

However, Matteo, I will agree, if you will, to keep eyes and ears open, and to adjust my assessments as new events become known. New info often changes ones assessment.

Or hadn't you noticed?

DR
 
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The rumours are "yes".

I see, we witness AUP style skepticism, which turns out to be speculation.

Not well played.

The fortune telling capacity of rumor is not, as I recall, a 100% success story.

Or hadn't you noticed?

As I remarked to Matteo, it has the potential to all come tumbling down.

It's not the only place with that potential.

DR
 
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I'm in the "No" camp; the dissimilarities are too great for it to become another Rwanda, which isn't to say it mightn't become nastier than it is.

Kenya: 5 major tribes (with about 35 minor). The Kikuyu, to whom the president belongs, has the plurality, but not the majority--22% of the population.

The Luhya is next with 14%, and the Luo, to whom the opposition belongs is about 13%. Further, they have distinct geographic areas. The Kikuyu own Nairobi and environs. The Luo are in Kisumu near Lake Victoria and the Rift Valley, far from the ocean coast.

Rwanda had three tribes, but 99% of the population belonged to only two, with one of those having 80% alone. Beyond that, they did not have distinct geographical areas and the distinction between them was minimal. The closer actual kinship, the bloodier the fight, it seems to me.
 
I have actually spent some time in Kenya, including some rather interesting interactions with locals after we got into a car accident.

I'm not going to pretend that I know what's going on there, but all of the people we interacted with (mostly guides and resort workers) seemed extremely interested in living in a stable society. Corruption was rampant and the infrastructure just incredibly bad. It's highly stratified (go hang out at one of the big fancy hotels and you will see much wealth of the Kenyan elite things like $20,000 watches, mercedes etc).

Bottom line, I wouldn't have predicted this outcome but it's obvious they need serious governmental reform. I have no idea if the new guys would be any less corrupt than the guys they are trying to replace though.
 

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