Careyp74
Illuminator
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interesting question. Would the story have to be interesting?
It is like asking if someone could make a dish that has never been made before. I suppose if there were ingredients that have never been used before.
Are there any such ingredients in writing? Has everything been done already?
Lets look at it this way. Has there been any recent films that do not fit any previous forms? I think it is hard to write anything without rehashing at least one aspect of all that you list.
It is like asking if someone could make a dish that has never been made before. I suppose if there were ingredients that have never been used before.
Are there any such ingredients in writing? Has everything been done already?
Lets look at it this way. Has there been any recent films that do not fit any previous forms? I think it is hard to write anything without rehashing at least one aspect of all that you list.
Probably not, unless you're defining those terms very narrowly. Which is not a big deal, as of that list, only cliches (and possibly stereotypes depending on what they're based on) are "bad." And even cliched elements can be fine if they're handled well.
Consider TV Tropes's list of Ending Tropes. It would be pretty hard to write a story that didn't fall into at least one of these categories. Hell, the "Happily Ever After," "Downer Ending," "Now What," "No Ending," and "And the Adventure Continues" items almost cover the waterfront by themselves.
So, has everything that could be written, been written?
I pose this question because a person I know who previews scripts for a living (and writes a short paragraph explaining what the script is all about) was ranting this weekend about how it seems that she keeps getting the same dozen or so scripts each week, and how she's getting frustrated with essentially writing the same dozen or so script synopses for them.
Have all the stories been told?
I pose this question because a person I know who previews scripts for a living (and writes a short paragraph explaining what the script is all about) was ranting this weekend about how it seems that she keeps getting the same dozen or so scripts each week, and how she's getting frustrated with essentially writing the same dozen or so script synopses for them.
Have all the stories been told?
patchbunny
Graduate Poster
I'm not well versed enough in literature to identify every nitpicky bit out there you're seeking, but I found Penn Jillette's novel, Sock, original. Or maybe it was just the style.
TSR
Illuminator
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.
No no no -- I have a great idea for a completely new story, never been done before: you see, in my story, boy meets girl, boy loses girl -- and then get this: boy wins girl back again.
What do you think?
.
The True Scotsman
Muse
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Sure, but to be certain you haven't used any archetypes, cliches, stereotypes, or literary trope you'd have to read everything story ever written and hear every story ever told.
In broad enough terms, probably.
As Dunstan pointed out, there are only so many ways to end a story -- other than "happily" and "unhappily," what are the other choices?
Of course, people don't read (or watch films) "in broad terms." They read or watch the very specific story that is in front of them, which includes not only broad questions like "does good triumph and hero bed heroine?" but also very narrow aspects like whether or not this particular character has this particular quirk.
And if the character is interesting enough and well-enough written, then the story can still be new even if the elements are old. Look at the success of House in re-establishing the medical drama -- but that's largely because the character of House himself is so compelling.
Similarly, if the setting is new, then the old stories can still be told as new ones. That's why the art of the "cozy" mystery has largely shifted to new settings. There's not much that can be written any more about Lord Bittlethwaite's death in Cheesecake Manor (Agatha and Dorothy pretty much tapped that one out), but Lindsay Davis and Ellis Peters are doing all right with writing cozies-meet-historical-fiction.
Only in the same sense that all the songs have been written because there are only so many notes you can use.
Tropes are just story elements, motifs, etc. They're not complete stories themselves.
Was the story of The Incredible Hulk already told by Robert Louis Stevenson just because they share the "bestial alter ego" device?
Is the story of Harry Potter "the same" as that of Luke Skywalker simply because they share the general pattern of "orphaned boy learns he has potential for great magical ability that he must harness, together with new friends and allies, to defeat a powerful evil overlord"?
KingMerv00
Penultimate Amazing
Nope, power animals and farm tools.
Even better!
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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Well if you're attempting to boil a two hour screenplay down to a short paragraph they probably will all start to sound the same. I don't think that actually means they're the same story however. The variation is in the detail.
JWideman
Graduate Poster
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Without resorting to? Absolutely. Indeed, a story that was merely a collection of cliches and stereotypes strung together in a coherent fashion would be nauseating. Equally nauseating would be a story that struggles to avoid them. A story that has real characters in real situations is what's interesting, and some stereotypes and cliches come out of real things.
Using cliches and stereotypes in place of good storytelling is what's bad, not the cliches and stereotypes themselves.
Using cliches and stereotypes in place of good storytelling is what's bad, not the cliches and stereotypes themselves.
I think you may be very close to the truth with this.
JWideman
Graduate Poster
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I didn't read the whole thread first, so I guess I'll just respond to this separately.
Yes and no. The building blocks to any story are limited in number. There's only 7 basic plots (or as many as 36, depending on how refined you want to get):
1. Man vs Woman
2. Man vs Nature
3. Man vs Environment
4. Man vs Machine
5. Man vs Supernatural
6. Man vs Self
7. Man vs God
No matter what sort of story you tell, it's going to boil down to a permutation of the above. Unless it's what's called literary fiction, which means there's no plot. (Nobody but editors read those. They seem to print them only for the benefit of other editors.)
There's lots of ways to dress them up. However, new writers tend to follow trends, rather than set them. So I'm going to guess that your friend sees a lot of scripts from new writers, and I'm going to guess they're all about either vampires in love or magic students.
gumboot
lorcutus.tolere
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Excellent point. Actually, if anyone else's life is anything like mine, there's numerous times when I stop and reflect on real events and situations and amuse myself with the observation that what I am experiencing is such a cliche or such a stereotype.
The fact is, many of these stereotypes and cliches actually exist because they're mostly true. I'll take my personal favourite example; the dim-witted model.
In my job, I have worked with screeds of models on countless jobs, and male or female, young or old, native or foreign, I have to agree that the stereotype is more or less true.
If you consciously attempt to avoid cliches you'll end up with a mess of a story. Even worse, you might end up with a story full of cliches, because in our quest to "avoid cliches" we've actually made cliches of the exact opposite. Is the big-breasted blonde bimbo who turns out to be incredibly smart not a cliche? Is the tough football jock who has some deep sentimental aspect not a cliche?
xXMoshtradamusXx
Thinker
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Actually, there's only 1 basic conflict:
"(Wo)Man vs. Threat."
'Threat' can come from: (Wo)man, Nature, Environment, Machine or Technology, Supernatural, Self, Religion / God(s) or even something as simple as Change.
The 7 basic plots are: Quest, Odyssey, Rebirth / Redemption, Comedy, Tragedy, Triumph (usually over a monster), and Rags to Riches / Riches to Rags.