• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Is it cruel to keep pets?

EGarrett

Illuminator
E
Joined
Feb 24, 2004
Messages
3,086
My family's pet cockatiel (a bird) died several months ago of old age.

He lived in a good-sized cage for nearly all of his life. Never had much of a chance to fly around or reproduce. But by the same token, he never had to go hungry, never had to fear for the predators that his species deal with in the wild, and was always near various windows and had plenty of toys to keep him occupied.

I can't decide if what we did for him was good or cruel. Or if his life was better or worse than a free bird. I was quite fond of the little guy and I admit it would make me a little depressed to think we had given him a bad life.
 
You can be sure its life was longer than it would have been in the wild. If it was captive bred then it may not have even existed if not for the pet trade.
Anything more than that is just speculation. Do birds even experience fear?
 
It isn't cruel the way I keep 'em. My girls (two dogs) sleep on a nice warm couch nearly all day long, have a yard to run and play in, and have lots of things to bark at and chase (including each other). We should all live a dog's life. The roughest thing I make them do is sleep on pillows in the kitchen at night and take a little bit of medicine with treats before bed.

I wouldn't worry about your bird too much. We humans have a tendancy to over anthropomorphize things. I do it with my girls, I'm sure you did it with your bird. I'm sure none of them formed anything like what we would call "an opinion" on the matter.
 
It's a hard question because we don't know what the bird feels. What are it's experiences like?
My view is that we can be relatively sure that it's experience of pain is at least in some ways similar to ours. Same with hunger, fear, etc. Probably also similar experiences when hunger or thirst are satiated. The things you mention.

I imagine that its experience of sexual desire is very different from ours, but contains a similar urgency and power.

How about boredom? I'm not sure. Is it a social species? If not, I doubt it experiences loneliness.

Hard questions, and the answers seem a long way off. The best we can do is try to give them a good life, while enjoying their company.

Yes, I like animals. I do think that while these are hard questions, they have answers. And I also think that while the human brain is more complex than other animal's brains, there is little reason to beleive that they don't experience emotions like we do. I think the added complexity in our brains contains more complex emotions (mainly social) and abstract thinking abilities.
But that we do share some emotions with many other animals (especially the more complex ones - primates, elephants, dolphins, other large social species), and that those emotions are experienced in similar ways by all of these different species.
Of course the animal's experience of an emotion or other cognitive response depends upon if that experience has been adaptive for it's ancestors. So there will be some divergence. But certain responses are likely to be adaptive across a wide variety of species - hunger for instance.

I could be wrong, but to suggest that they don't have those similar experiences, even though they show similar responses, would require evidence.
 
Upchurch said:
We should all live a dog's life.
Click to expand...
While I prefer the company of dogs, if I had my choise I'd rather live the life of a cat. I remember looking at my family cat growing up. He came and went as he pleased, was free to wander the neighborhood hunting mice and birds, defending his territory from other cats (and he almost always won his fights, but when he lost he had recourse to good medical care).
And he always had a warm home to come back to where he could sleep all day if he chose, food to eat and water to drink. And the company of humans who couldn't get enough petting him.

Oh, and two dogs to annoy (he would frequently make stealthy attacks on them and then run off).

There was that one nasty time he was caught in a cat trap, but it seems he learned his lesson after that.

Yes, it's the life of a cat for me. :)

Sorry for the derail. Couldn't help myself.
 
It's certainly cruel to keep some animals as pets depending on the manner you keep them. I would imagine a tiger would be pretty unhappy in a cage. But a tiger in a large area and thrown a few sheep to play with would be happy. I can't imagine snakes getting all that unhappy as long as they have food and warm rock.

I think it's safe to assume that most mammals and birds are able to experience negative feelings associated with interaction with their evironment. I'd guess that they are likely to feel bad if they cannot express their natural urges or are kept in a sitation that conflicts with them.

I must say that I personally wouldn't feel good about keeping a bird in a cage since flying seems to be such an integral part of their natural life but who knows? Many reasonably complex animals show visible signs of anxiety which hopefully would tip you off.
 
Although all pet owners tend to anthromorphize their animal companions, it's very hard to figure what lower-on-the-intelligence-scale critters like birds and snakes "feel".
Anyone who has owned dogs knows that they are very closely bonded to their human owners, and are sensitive to mood changes. They provide a number of services other than companionship, of course, as has been the case throughout human history.

When you see your pups sleeping at your feet in states of utter contentment, it's hard to imagine that a wild existance would be better.
 
Cats keep their owners so I have no reason to feel guilty ;)
 
As a long time feeder of stray cats, I've had more strays cat try to sneak into the house and become full-fledged housecats, than I have had housecats change their mind and go feral.

As long as the animal is realativly happy, and not abused or neglected, I don't see it as cruel. I enjoy my cats company, and they seem to enjoy mine.
 
I tend to draw the line at birds and fish. "Fish gotta swim and birds gotta fly" may be a cheesy line but when you think about it they just aren't suited to being confined to such a tiny space. Most other pets have the chance to explore a much more varied environment and are not deprived of their main means of locomotion by their confinement.

--- G.

p.s. that being said, it's just my personal value judgment, I don't look down on anyone for owning birds or fish and I'm sure they can provide mutual pleasure for pet and owner if given due consideration
 
Last edited:
Dogs and cats are special cases since they are bred to be pets. They are bound to enjoy it more. Dogs immediately see humans as part of the natural pack hierarchy and fit right in.

BTW my cats are not always happy - not the one who gets bullied by the other one anyway. Despite the lazy existence looking appealing, I think they have their own problems.
 
There can instances where keeping pets is cruel. In the case of domestic animals, specifically the dog and cat they are adapted to living with humans and so what it takes to care for them is much less than a non domesticated animal. In the case of non domesticated birds such as parrots lovebirds etc I am neutral. It may or may not be cruel to keep them. I actually have a cockatiel but it was released by someone and flew into someone else's garage who caught it and gave it to me (yeah people give me the bird a lot). I would never buy one. Clearly wild animals have no place in most homes, so people who have lions or tigers or monkeys or chimpanzees for the most part are cruel. To keep them properly takes a lot of room and a special pen and ideally others of their kind to relate to. Obviously you can take poor care of any animal which would be cruel but it is much easier to be cruel to a wild animal since what people would assume is adequate care and would be adequate care for a dog does not apply to wild animals.
 
I try and think of all concerned parties. I don't want wild birds to be prey for my cats, but I don't want my cats cooped. My solution: keep 'em indoors most of the time, but let them out in the backyard. Unlike a typical homeowner I don't have a gigantic stretch of flat green; I have patches of open grass and patches of native scrub bushes and undergrowth. The cats can play tiger and don't want to leave the yard; the birds see 'em coming so they scoot when the door opens.
 
EGarrett said:
I can't decide if what we did for him was good or cruel. Or if his life was better or worse than a free bird. I was quite fond of the little guy and I admit it would make me a little depressed to think we had given him a bad life.
Click to expand...

My 2 cents.

If you are unsure if keeping a bird in captivity was good or cruel then you should not keep any others until you have resolved this dilemma for yourself. This is for the sake of your conscience and the potential sake of the creature.

I have have many animals as pets over the years and while I cannot read their minds, I can observe their behavior.

With birds such as parrots they required a *ton* of attention of they would exhibit behaviors indicative of mental stress such as pulling out their feathers, becoming 'mean' and confused (begging to be picked up and then biting when the hand was extended etc. So, in my judgement based upon my observations keeping any social animal in capitivity is cruel unless we are able to fully satisfy it's social needs.

I have kept rats as well and they are very social creatures. They require another rat as a companion or they show signs of suffering as well.

I have a hamster and from what I can observe it prefers to be alone. It shows no signs of suffering in it's solitude.

I have a dog and I believe from observation it is quite happy. I also have cats and they appear quite happy.

I have had fish and couldn't tell one way or the other. Same for reptiles and amphibians.

I can't claim that the creatures which appear OK in captivity don't suffer at all, but I think it reasonable that the creatures I believe were suffering really were based upon their visible behaviors. Those I do not keep any longer.
 
EGarrett said:
My family's pet cockatiel (a bird) died several months ago of old age.

He lived in a good-sized cage for nearly all of his life. Never had much of a chance to fly around or reproduce. But by the same token, he never had to go hungry, never had to fear for the predators that his species deal with in the wild, and was always near various windows and had plenty of toys to keep him occupied.

I can't decide if what we did for him was good or cruel. Or if his life was better or worse than a free bird. I was quite fond of the little guy and I admit it would make me a little depressed to think we had given him a bad life.
Click to expand...

Some animals were domesticated a long time ago and can not survive well, if at all, on their own. It is cruel to abandon those sorts of domesticated animals. On the other hand you have exotic species which are simply wild animals held in captivity. I would think this certainly has the potential to be cruel.
 
We have a fish who has freakishly lived over a year in the same plastic .5 liter container, which we change the water of bi-weekly, and feel every other day.

I feel bad for it.
 
First my condolences upon the loss of your pet.

If the animal was bred in captivity and for the purposes of being a pet, giving it a home is kind as long as you take good care. It looks like you must have done so, considering he died of old age and not disease or abuse.

If the animal was bred in the wild and was not meant for a pet, it is cruel and abusive to keep it. There can be very few happy endings in such cases.

I think your cockatiel probably had a happy life. Not the same life as a wild bird, but a happy one.
 
I echo LibraryLady's sentiments. Um, not the 'slimy fish' one... ;) And I'm sorry for your loss, birds are fantastic creatures. :(

In my case, I have such a dopey cat sitting next to me that I doubt she'd last five minutes in the wild without expecting someone to carry her about. :rolleyes: Considering that she and her fellow housecats were all dumped originally, I think I'm rather fortunate that someone found and brought them in rather than the irresponsible 'let them loose in the wild to fend for themselves' that results in wildlife destruction.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom