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Is China using lasers to jam US satellites?

jay gw

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China has beamed a ground-based laser at U.S. spy satellites over its territory, a U.S. agency said, in an action that exposed the potential vulnerability of space systems that provide crucial data to American troops and consumers around the world.

The Defense Department remains tight-lipped about details, including which satellite was involved or when it occurred.

The Pentagon's National Reconnaissance Office Director Donald Kerr last week acknowledged the incident, first reported by Defense News, but said it did not materially damage the U.S. satellite's ability to collect information.

The issue looms large, given that U.S. military operations have rapidly grown more reliant on satellite data for everything from targeting bombs to relaying communications to spying on enemy nations.

Critical U.S. space assets include a constellation of 30 Global Positioning Satellites that help target bombs and find enemy locations. This system is also widely used in commercial applications, ranging from car navigation systems to automatic teller machines.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-10-05-satellite-laser_x.htm?csp=34

Do you believe the story, or is this a "we need money for laser/satellite/bomb research" ploy? The US military has a habit of releasing (unindependently verified) stories of how 'dangerous' other nations are becoming. Friends in the know have told me the US is basing big parts of it's defense budget on what China is doing, so look out for 'how dangerous China is' stories here and there.

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The Chinese are working on a lot of laser and radar ranging systems. It might have something to do with that.

Of course, it could have been a test of a laser targeting system.

No way to really know.

However, I seriously doubt that the Chinese would be stupid enough to actually take any direct action against any US property.
 
I wish the Chinese were trying to kill us with cancer, heat disease, strokes, alzheimers, dementia, and accidents. Then we could focus more defense money on cures for the stuff that's actually likely to kill us.
 
Mocha Cappuccino said:
China has beamed a ground-based laser at U.S. spy satellites over its territory, a U.S. agency said, in an action that exposed the potential vulnerability of space systems that provide crucial data to American troops and consumers around the world.

The Defense Department remains tight-lipped about details, including which satellite was involved or when it occurred.

The Pentagon's National Reconnaissance Office Director Donald Kerr last week acknowledged the incident, first reported by Defense News, but said it did not materially damage the U.S. satellite's ability to collect information.

The issue looms large, given that U.S. military operations have rapidly grown more reliant on satellite data for everything from targeting bombs to relaying communications to spying on enemy nations.

Critical U.S. space assets include a constellation of 30 Global Positioning Satellites that help target bombs and find enemy locations. This system is also widely used in commercial applications, ranging from car navigation systems to automatic teller machines.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-10-05-satellite-laser_x.htm?csp=34

Do you believe the story, or is this a "we need money for laser/satellite/bomb research" ploy? The US military has a habit of releasing (unindependently verified) stories of how 'dangerous' other nations are becoming. Friends in the know have told me the US is basing big parts of it's defense budget on what China is doing, so look out for 'how dangerous China is' stories here and there.

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Don't worry. There is an absolute defence against a laser attack. It's call a mirror,
 
If this story turns out to be factual in terms of effectiveness, then my hat's off to China. Hitting a satellite with a ground based laser long enough to disrupt, even if only temporarily, its sensors is no easy feat. The precision required is mind-boggling even ignoring things like atmospheric effects.
 
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Gord_in_Toronto said:
Don't worry. There is an absolute defence against a laser attack. It's call a mirror,
Click to expand...

Yea, well, it's a bitch for a sensor to sense through a mirror (not that I take much stock in the effectiveness of the laser system in question -- it almost pegs my bs meter).
 
Mocha Cappuccino said:
China has beamed a ground-based laser at U.S. spy satellites over its territory, a U.S. agency said, in an action that exposed the potential vulnerability of space systems that provide crucial data to American troops and consumers around the world.

The Defense Department remains tight-lipped about details, including which satellite was involved or when it occurred.

The Pentagon's National Reconnaissance Office Director Donald Kerr last week acknowledged the incident, first reported by Defense News, but said it did not materially damage the U.S. satellite's ability to collect information.

The issue looms large, given that U.S. military operations have rapidly grown more reliant on satellite data for everything from targeting bombs to relaying communications to spying on enemy nations.

Critical U.S. space assets include a constellation of 30 Global Positioning Satellites that help target bombs and find enemy locations. This system is also widely used in commercial applications, ranging from car navigation systems to automatic teller machines.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2006-10-05-satellite-laser_x.htm?csp=34

Do you believe the story, or is this a "we need money for laser/satellite/bomb research" ploy? The US military has a habit of releasing (unindependently verified) stories of how 'dangerous' other nations are becoming. Friends in the know have told me the US is basing big parts of it's defense budget on what China is doing, so look out for 'how dangerous China is' stories here and there.

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Notice they are not claiming it was an attack - just that it got them to thinking.

Satellites are covered in reflective material to protect them from radiation, so I'm not sure what a laser will accomplish. It's probably more likely to reflect downward and damage the host country.

My guess is that the satellite passed over an operating astronomical laser project, rather than was actually fired upon.



However, I smell ******** over this whole story: how would they *detect* a laser near-miss? The only way I can see is that they were leaked intelligence from China about such a mishap, rather than actually discovered the incident on their own.
 
Rob Lister said:
Yea, well, it's a bitch for a sensor to sense through a mirror (not that I take much stock in the effectiveness of the laser system in question -- it almost pegs my bs meter).
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Sure. I realized that when I posted. But, it would depend on the sensor and would not apply to GPS birds. ;)
 
Mocha Cappuccino said:
Critical U.S. space assets include a constellation of 30 Global Positioning Satellites that help target bombs and find enemy locations. This system is also widely used in commercial applications, ranging from car navigation systems to automatic teller machines.

[-
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ATMs use GPS? Other than using the time code that is broadcast from the satellites, I can't imgine how they would use GPS signals.
 
Ladewig said:
ATMs use GPS? Other than using the time code that is broadcast from the satellites, I can't imgine how they would use GPS signals.
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Small ones get stolen and transported. The GPS+cellular black boxes assist authorities in their investigations. Some thieves have been caught in the act.
 
Ladewig said:
Ahhh, quite clever.
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I used to work in a department at a telco that was responsible for recovery of coinboxes (phonebooths). Wish we had GPS back then. Some will probably never be found. (occasionally, one shows up when they search a lakebottom for something)
 
blutoski said:
However, I smell ******** over this whole story: how would they *detect* a laser near-miss? The only way I can see is that they were leaked intelligence from China about such a mishap, rather than actually discovered the incident on their own.
Click to expand...

Well, what was the intent of this laser? Was it to disrupt data transmission or photography of particular areas? If that was the case - and they succeeded - then that is likely how it was, by its end effect on the satellite, detected.

Pretty powerful stuff. If such technology can actually work, then it's not so much a threat to the destruction of that particular satellite's existence as it is to the technology that that satellite employs in carrying out it's end-purpose, namely the collection of data over a potentially "hostile" environment.

-Dr. Imago
 
All the laser needs to do is damage or degrade the satellites solar arrays. The satellite will be useless once it loses its source electrical power.
 
Mocha Cappuccino said:
Do you believe the story, or is this a "we need money for laser/satellite/bomb research" ploy? The US military has a habit of releasing (unindependently verified) stories of how 'dangerous' other nations are becoming. Friends in the know have told me the US is basing big parts of it's defense budget on what China is doing, so look out for 'how dangerous China is' stories here and there.
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USA claiming a weapon exists as an excuse to take military action? Get real, since when has that ever happened?
 
Dr. Imago said:
Well, what was the intent of this laser? Was it to disrupt data transmission or photography of particular areas? If that was the case - and they succeeded - then that is likely how it was, by its end effect on the satellite, detected.

Pretty powerful stuff. If such technology can actually work, then it's not so much a threat to the destruction of that particular satellite's existence as it is to the technology that that satellite employs in carrying out it's end-purpose, namely the collection of data over a potentially "hostile" environment.

-Dr. Imago
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The article said that the beam did not hit the satellite. I'm suspicious about how, exactly, they know the event took place.
 
Pfft, the Soviets did this back in the '60's. Of course, the response was a little different then; with us telling them if they did it again that it would be considered an act of war.
 
Arkan_Wolfshade said:
Pfft, the Soviets did this back in the '60's. Of course, the response was a little different then; with us telling them if they did it again that it would be considered an act of war.
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Doubtful. The Soviets couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the '60s, much less zap a moving satellite. I call shenanigans on this one.
 
Here are some articles on anti-satellite warfare:

http://www.g2mil.com/laser.htm

http://www.g2mil.com/spacewar.htm

US ground-based laser:

http://www.newscientisttech.com/article/dn9104-us-plans-antisatellite-lasers.html

US airborne laser:

http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/abl.htm

Russian laser:

http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/asat/wt971107_asat.htm

I should add that because of atmospheric scattering and the predictability of a statellite's orbit, it is actually quite easy to hit a satellite in orbit. The trick is to build a powerful laser and a somewhat accurate pointing mechanism. The rest is just math.
 
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