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is an eliptical orbit planet X possible?

andyandy

anthropomorphic ape
andyandy
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
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i was reading through some stuff on the sumerians.....

basically they describe a huge planet (Planet X) which travels on a massive eliptical rather than circular orbit of the sun....and so spends most of the time in the outer reaches of our solar system (or even outside it, they're not too specific....:) ) its eliptical orbit does however sometimes bring it close to the earth.....

im sure this violates our understanding of gravity....but it got me thinking, would a Planet X like the one they describe be technically possible - if so under what conditions? As i assume the answer to this is going to be no, then how about thinking about what laws we have need to be altered to make it possible.....?
 
andyandy said:
i was reading through some stuff on the sumerians.....

basically they describe a huge planet (Planet X) which travels on a massive eliptical rather than circular orbit of the sun....and so spends most of the time in the outer reaches of our solar system (or even outside it, they're not too specific....:) ) its eliptical orbit does however sometimes bring it close to the earth.....

im sure this violates our understanding of gravity....but it got me thinking, would a Planet X like the one they describe be technically possible - if so under what conditions? As i assume the answer to this is going to be no, then how about thinking about what laws we have need to be altered to make it possible.....?
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All orbits are elliptical*. Otherwise the answer is "No".


*to a close approximation
 
Don't all planets have elliptical orbits?

I would think it's possible for an object to have such a highly elliptical orbit that it passes close to Earth once in a while -- I think Halley's Comet fits that bill.

I would think that a planet on such an irregular orbit would have significant effects on the orbits of the other planets, so at a minimum you'd expect it to have been detected by its gravitational influence alone even if not by direct observation.
 
Phil Plait dealt with this topic at length during Coast to Coast's Nancy Leider nonsense. You just can't hammer reality into the heads of woo-believers enough to make it stick.
 
westphalia said:
Phil Plait dealt with this topic at length during Coast to Coast's Nancy Leider nonsense. You just can't hammer reality into the heads of woo-believers enough to make it stick.
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i suppose you know everything there is to know about the universe? lol
i'm sorry i didnt realise :)

like i said in my post, i didnt think it would be possible - but i don't have a good grounding in astro-physics and so would be interested in some intelligent comments as to the feasibility of the idea.....rather than snide know it all BS.....:)
 
theoretically I’m guessing there is nothing to dismiss a highly elliptical orbit, (comets do it all the time) but would think that when planet X is at perihelion is might not come back, or be influenced by another star into a very different orbit.
 
andyandy said:
i suppose you know everything there is to know about the universe? lol
i'm sorry i didnt realise :)

like i said in my post, i didnt think it would be possible - but i don't have a good grounding in astro-physics and so would be interested in some intelligent comments as to the feasibility of the idea.....rather than snide know it all BS.....:)
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You're absolutely right. The question of Planet X and whether it has an elliptical orbit deserves careful attention from our best minds.

How about a larger question: Does a non-existent planet have an elliptical orbit?
 
andyandy said:
basically they describe a huge planet (Planet X) which travels on a massive eliptical rather than circular orbit of the sun....and so spends most of the time in the outer reaches of our solar system (or even outside it, they're not too specific....:) ) its eliptical orbit does however sometimes bring it close to the earth.....

im sure this violates our understanding of gravity....
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Huh? Why? It's how gravity is supposed to work.

andyandy said:
but it got me thinking, would a Planet X like the one they describe be technically possible - if so under what conditions?
Click to expand...
Well, I don't know all the details regarding "the one they describe", but if you're asking if such a planet is possible, the answer is yes.

The first condition one would have to meet, though, is that its parameters would need to match current observational data.

Proving the possibility of existence is easy. Gravitational models are *very* simple and easily available. Plug in the data (mass, ephemeris) for your Planet X, propagate backwards, compare with observational data. If there's no discrepency, then the planet *could* exist. If there's a measureable discrepancy then the planet can't exist.

andyandy said:
As i assume the answer to this is going to be no, then how about thinking about what laws we have need to be altered to make it possible.....?
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Why do you assume the answer is no? It's all a question of magnitude. Is a Jupiter sized unknown planet possible? No, there'd be observational evidence. Is a 1-mile diameter unknown planet possible? Absolutely.

But, if there's no observational evidence, then you have no reason to suppose it exists in the first place.

- Timothy
 
andyandy said:
i was reading through some stuff on the sumerians.....

basically they describe a huge planet (Planet X) which travels on a massive eliptical rather than circular orbit of the sun....and so spends most of the time in the outer reaches of our solar system (or even outside it, they're not too specific....:) ) its eliptical orbit does however sometimes bring it close to the earth.....

im sure this violates our understanding of gravity....but it got me thinking, would a Planet X like the one they describe be technically possible - if so under what conditions? As i assume the answer to this is going to be no, then how about thinking about what laws we have need to be altered to make it possible.....?
Click to expand...
Let's see, you post on planet X,
and also harp on HAARP.

Been listening to Art Bell's coast-to-coast, have we?:D

Seriously, the modern versionPlanet X idea strongly resembles a serious theory called Nemisis:
http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/lbl-nem.htm

Proposed by physist Richard A. Muller
http://muller.lbl.gov/

many years ago to explain the periodicity of mass-extinctions such as the C-T meteor event that ended the reign of the dinosaurs. You should read his book for ways that highly elliptical orbits can work. Besides, it is a good science detective story.:)

Dave
 
One point I'd like clarified...
You say The Sumerians mentioned this huge planet. Can we have a source for this that isn't Sitchin?
 
No. If there were a planet behaving like that, then the orbits of the inner planets would be seriously disrupted and we'd all be dead.
 
JohnF_73 said:
I only read a chapter of this book (as part of anthology of science papers) but wasn't Nemesis an alleged companion star? ie. Our solar system was a binary star system?
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True, but Piet Hut at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, who was one of the authors, showed that such elongated orbits could be stable, and that might also might apply to this case.

Both cases call for periodic disruptions to be caused, and I thought that was interesting.:)

Dave
 
andyandy said:
yeah...should have clarified....they mean a very eliptical orbit - and the number bandied around on cyberspace is for a 3600year orbit.....

there's a diagram of its supposed orbit;

http://www.subversiveelement.com/Planet_X.html

the website itself isn't very convincing lol :) :) :)
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That's putting it mildly. We understand orbital mechanics well enough to send probes to the outer solar system and put landers on the inner planets. It is rocket science but we can do it, very accurately.
If the eccentricity is < 1 you have an elliptic, =1 a parabolic, > 1 a hyperbolic orbit (ie off Planet X goes around the galaxy. Go here for the maths. The aforementioned Bad Astronomer's page on Planet X "Orbital Math" is worth a look.
 
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Diamond said:
No. If there were a planet behaving like that, then the orbits of the inner planets would be seriously disrupted and we'd all be dead.
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Good point - though I suspect we wouldn't be here in the first place ...
 
Cheers for the

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/planetx/orbitmath.html

link….that clears up some of my questions…..

the
http://muller.lbl.gov/pages/lbl-nem.htm

theory is interesting - I didn’t realise that mass extinctions were so periodic…..I was once in a taxi, and the driver starts going on about his big theory for the dinosaur extinction - he reckoned it was cos the magnetic poles reversed, which knocked all the dinosaurs off their feet - and they were so big that they couldn’t get back up again…..he’d written a book about it and was looking to get it published lol……:)


People keep mentioning coast-to-coast - I’m from the UK, so I’ve never heard of it - but I get the impression it’s for conspiracy theory nuts right? Lol…….to be honest I do love a good conspiracy theory - but generally find the science behind disproving them is what’s really interesting…..:)

One point I'd like clarified...
You say The Sumerians mentioned this huge planet. Can we have a source for this that isn't Sitchin?

Lol…..fair point - he’s not really respected in the field is he….although you have to hand it to the guy….choose a language that is incredibly hard to translate….claim to have cracked it…..make some amazing claims about aliens and missing planets, write a book…..and watch the money roll in :)
 
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