Iraq is lost, either way.

[a_unique_person]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/iraq-mission-futile-says-expert/2006/10/24/1161455700729.html

Prime Minister John Howard must set a definite date for the withdrawal of Australian troops from Iraq because their mission has become futile, says an Australian terrorism expert.
David Wright-Neville, a former Federal Government intelligence analyst, who will soon head a Global Terrorism Research Centre at Monash University, said a recent upsurge in violence in Iraq would worsen because occupying Western forces had lost their moral authority, and terrorists and insurgents were using guerilla warfare tactics with increasing success.
"I don't think there's terribly much hope in the immediate future that we're going to see a stable, democratic Iraq - the sort of vision that was promised to us by the PM and others when they led us into this conflict," Associate Professor Wright-Neville told theage.com.au.

There are people in the know popping up everywhere now, saying pretty much the same thing. Even if they sometimes forced to retract the statement for political reasons.

A SENIOR United States diplomat has apologised for saying US policy in Iraq displayed "arrogance" and "stupidity" as the Bush Administration denied it was preparing to offer Iraq a timetable for taking control of national security.
US State Department official Alberto Fernandez issued a written apology, saying he "seriously misspoke" when he made his controversial comments during an interview with al-Jazeera television.
The developments came as Britain rejected a media report that said it was going to put pressure on Iraq's Deputy Prime Minister for the country's forces to take control of southern provinces from British troops within a year.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...tupidity-remark/2006/10/23/1161455663862.html

 

[gtc]

Even if they sometimes forced to retract the statement for political reasons.

The article says the man claims to have mispoke, it makes no mention of him being forced to retract let alone forced to retract for political statements.

Perhaps you meant to link to a different article?

 

[a_unique_person]

 

[mgidm86]

I think the OP is kinda "flimsy", but this.....

"Upon reading the transcript of my appearance on al-Jazeera, I realised that I seriously misspoke by using the phrase 'there has been arrogance and stupidity' by the US in Iraq," said Mr Fernandez, director of public diplomacy in the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs.


"This represents neither my views nor those of the State Department. I apologise."

.....should read:

"Upon reading the transcript of my appearance on al-Jazeera, I realised that I seriously f'd up by using the phrase..."

Yeah, I'm sure he wasn't forced to retract for political reasons at all. Oh no, he really didn't mean it at the time - the words just fell out of his mouth. Oops!

 

[Darat]

...snip..

And you point is what? You've not even defined what you mean by "Iraq is lost".

Personally I think Iraq is anything but lost - it's not going to be a nice place for a long time but that is not surprising to me.

 

[gtc]

Yeah, I am as sure as you are that he came to that realisation on his own with no thought of his future, but evidence is evidence.

 

[Tricky]

And you point is what? You've not even defined what you mean by "Iraq is lost".

Personally I think Iraq is anything but lost - it's not going to be a nice place for a long time but that is not surprising to me.

I agree. "Lost" is not a well-defined term. The region will eventually settle to some sort of stability, though it may not be called "Iraq".

The word I would use is "wasted" as in wasted lives, wasted resources, wasted time, all in the name of... what? I don't even know what the real reason for the invasion was. None of the stated reasons make any sense. Yeah, we got rid of Saddam, but what we have is worse. Yeah, there is a democracy (sort of) but no bets on how long it will last, and I suspect Iraqis would quickly ditch the democracy if it meant the killing would stop.

Even the unadmitted reasons for the war haven't worked out. We (the US) don't have good access to their oil. We don't have a place to keep a safe, permanent military base. Even the "avenge Daddy" bit is skewed, because Daddy apparently doesn't approve of all this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to find that he resents his (relatively) good name being associated with what might be the worst president ever.

 

[a_unique_person]

The expression he uses is 'futile', that's saying that the objectives cannot be achieved.

 

[Darth Rotor]

The word I would use is "wasted" as in wasted lives, wasted resources, wasted time, all in the name of... what? I don't even know what the real reason for the invasion was. None of the stated reasons make any sense. Yeah, we got rid of Saddam, but what we have is worse. Yeah, there is a democracy (sort of) but no bets on how long it will last, and I suspect Iraqis would quickly ditch the democracy if it meant the killing would stop.

Even the unadmitted reasons for the war haven't worked out. We (the US) don't have good access to their oil. We don't have a place to keep a safe, permanent military base. Even the "avenge Daddy" bit is skewed, because Daddy apparently doesn't approve of all this stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to find that he resents his (relatively) good name being associated with what might be the worst president ever.

Iraq has been broken. Remember Powell's sound byte "If you break it, you own it?" Well, the US owns the problem of breaking Iraq.

Perhaps it needed to be broken, or would have broken as soon as Saddam died, see the Tito problem in Yugoslavia for a possible (albeit inexact) parallel. That it may have "needed breaking" is hardly an excuse to break it, of course.

If GHWB is upset with GWB, he has only himself to blame. He was a motive force behind ensuring GWB checked McCain into the boards during the 2000 primaries. He is now reaping the whirlwind, and in a curious fashion, it seems that the OT concept of "the sins of the fathers will be borne by the sons" is coming true for that family. Jeb is wise to stay in Florida.

DR

 

[President Bush]

Jeb is wise to stay in Florida.

Jeb is no wiser than the rest of us. But his wife Columba has fooled around on him too much. I don't think he'll ever have a run at a higher political office than the governorship.

 

[Tricky]

Jeb is no wiser than the rest of us. But his wife Columba has fooled around on him too much. I don't think he'll ever have a run at a higher political office than the governorship.

He's got a better shot than Neil. But Neil needn't worry. The Bush family takes care of their own.

A company headed by President Bush’s brother and partly owned by his parents is benefiting from Republican connections and federal dollars targeted for economically disadvantaged students under the No Child Left Behind Act.
...
Most of Ignite’s business has been obtained through sole-source contracts without competitive bidding.
...
Ignite’s educational strategy has changed dramatically, and some are critical of its new approach. Shortly after Ignite was formed in Austin, Texas, in 1999, it bought the software developed by another small Austin company, Adaptive Learning Technology.
...
The developers of Adaptive Learning’s software complain that Ignite replaced individualized instruction with a gimmick.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Jeb is no wiser than the rest of us. But his wife Columba has fooled around on him too much. I don't think he'll ever have a run at a higher political office than the governorship.

As governors go, how has he done for you all? Good, bad, or about average?

Compared to Lawton Chiles, how has he done?

DR

 

[President Bush]

As governors go, how has he done for you all?

Boy howdy, I'm from Midland, Texas, DR. But Jeb Bush has been, of course, the finest governor in the USA.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Boy howdy, I'm from Midland, Texas, DR. But Jeb Bush has been, of course, the finest governor in the USA.

For reasons not too clear, I thought you lived in Florida. Sorry.

Vote Kinky for Governor, 2006: he can't be any worse.

DR

 

[President Bush]

Vote Kinky for Governor, 2006

KERRVILLE, Texas - Independent candidate Kinky Friedman voted for himself for governor Monday, the first day of early voting, and urged all Texans to do the same.

"I voted for Kinky. I like where the guy stands on most of the issues," Friedman joked after walking out of the Kerr County Courthouse.

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/newssentinel/15829746.htm

As the first Jewish governor of Texas I hear he will lower the speed limit from 55 to 54.99

 

[Meadmaker]

And you point is what? You've not even defined what you mean by "Iraq is lost".

Personally I think Iraq is anything but lost - it's not going to be a nice place for a long time but that is not surprising to me.

Do you really think so? I would like to think so. My version of "lost" is that the current generation of Iraqis will never see peace and democracy. A win is a peaceful, democratic, Iraq. Anything else is a loss. If it takes 10 years to get there, that's still a win.

Unfortunately, I see a loss. I see a Muslim dictatorship, similar to Iran.

Is there a source for your optimisim? I really would like to be optimistic about this.

 

[kittynh]

Iraq isn't lost. But North Korea! I think we should just let China take it over. The Chinese have been putting out press showing that they have a historic claim to North Korea. Go for it guys!!!

Yep, nothing like China having their own Iraq to make them a real world superpower!

Besides, I've heard that North Koreans slip over the boarder into China for a better way of life. To protect their borders, I think they have to invade.

Please!

 

[kittynh]

oh I see IRan really turning around! Maybe because I know some Iranians (in fact they are going back for a big medical conference soon) and the average Iranian is as ashamed of their leadership as many in the US are of ours!

Plus, things have cooled off there. The average life of an Iranian is a whole lot better than the average life of an Iraqi (at least under Saddam, and perhaps even now).

Crazy leaders, but don't we all have that.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Iraq isn't lost. But North Korea! I think we should just let China take it over. The Chinese have been putting out press showing that they have a historic claim to North Korea. Go for it guys!!!

Yep, nothing like China having their own Iraq to make them a real world superpower!

Besides, I've heard that North Koreans slip over the boarder into China for a better way of life. To protect their borders, I think they have to invade.

Please!

Do North Koreans also grow good dope? I hadn't heard of PyongYang purple haze. As I've never been part of the drug scene, what would I know?

DR

 

[a_unique_person]

Iraq has been broken. Remember Powell's sound byte "If you break it, you own it?" Well, the US owns the problem of breaking Iraq.

Perhaps it needed to be broken, or would have broken as soon as Saddam died, see the Tito problem in Yugoslavia for a possible (albeit inexact) parallel. That it may have "needed breaking" is hardly an excuse to break it, of course.

If GHWB is upset with GWB, he has only himself to blame. He was a motive force behind ensuring GWB checked McCain into the boards during the 2000 primaries. He is now reaping the whirlwind, and in a curious fashion, it seems that the OT concept of "the sins of the fathers will be borne by the sons" is coming true for that family. Jeb is wise to stay in Florida.

DR

The difference is that when it breaks for another reason, you are the good guy when you try to fix it, and other people are more inclined to come along and help you out.