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Iran's european collaborators

Pardalis

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Germany and Belgium's interpol are now helping the Iranian thugocracy arrest dissidents outside of Iran.

Now the regime has won new allies in its effort to crush the opposition: the governments of Belgium and Germany, and Interpol, the International police organization based in Lyons, France.

On March 6, the German government exercised a dubious arrest warrant issued by Belgium and stormed the Cologne apartment of Rahman Haj Ahmadi, the secretary-general of the Free Life Party of Iranian Kurdistan.

[...]
Making this situation even more absurd and outrageous is an international arrest warrant - known as a "red notice" - issued by Interpol on March 6 for Shahram Homayoun, an Iranian broadcaster who runs a satellite TV station in Los Angeles.
The Interpol warrant cites as justification a judgment by a court in Shiraz, Iran, condemning Mr. Homayoun as a "terrorist." Mr. Homayoun tells me he was unaware of any court proceeding against him in Shiraz, but he makes no bones about his opposition to the regime. Before the June elections, he used his satellite television network to call on Iranians to carry out peaceful protests using the slogan "Ma Hastim" - we exist.

[...]
Interpol has issued 50 red notices for Iranian opposition activists, mainly on terrorism-related charges. A key government witness in the Mykonos trial in Germany - which resulted in convictions against top Iranian leaders for the murder of a Kurdish dissident in Berlin in 1992 - is also wanted by Interpol at Iran's request on fraud charges.
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With "allies" like that, who needs enemies?
 
You make it sound like they arrested some peaceful protester. The investigation into Rahman Haj Ahmadi's and PJAK's activities have more to do with allegations of terrorism, than with just being a dissident from Iran.

E.g., see
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,547211,00.html

To wit, by his own admission, it's normal for his followers to carry pistols and Kalashnikovs, killed hundreds of Iranian soldiers, and downed at least one helicopter.

The group is also not just staying in Iran, but is launching its raids out of Turkey and Iraq.

I'm sorry, but basically if he wants to conduct armed guerilla operations for the cause of Kurdistan, he can f. off to Kurdistan.
 
Great cherry picking stuff there. Best I have seen outside the 911 section.
 
who is terrorist and who is freedomfirghter?

difficult situation.
 
DC said:
who is terrorist and who is freedomfirghter?

difficult situation.
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A man heading an organization killing soldiers isn't a terrorist. He may or may not fight for freedom, he may not be a legal or legitimate combatant, but killing soldiers on duty in the manner described is not an act of terrorism as far as I'm concerned, but an act of armed rebellion or insurgency.

McHrozni
 
1. What, with radio controlled landmines? I think you just agreed then that the guys planting roadside bombs and sniping US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are a legitimate insurgency.

2. But at any rate, I think sponsoring and aiding guerilla attacks against a state you're not at war with, is... bad form, to say the least. If Iran were training and protecting guerilla troops to conduct armed raids in Iraq, everyone would be shaking fists and talking about "act of war." But the CIA arming the PJAK with those remote controlled mines and whatnot, apparently that's ok, huh?

Well, be as it may, CIA can do whatever it wishes, but if Germany doesn't want to take part in that farce, I can only approve.

3. Besides, isn't the constant underhanded play in the area that got them to hate the West in the first place? This kind of stuff isn't exactly winning hearts and minds anywhere. And the hypocrisy in speaking about "war on terror" and no tollerance on terror, while arming people to go cause mayhem in Iran, even less so.

Again, if even under Obama the USA just can't abstain from that, well, it's not like we can stop it or anything. But again kudos to the German government if they don't take part in the farce.

4. Don't get me wrong, if this guy wants to go to Iran and fight an insurgency, I'm not going to try to stop him from fighting an insurgency.

Mostly because I've been in the army and it sucked. Plus, there's the whole business of getting shot at, that's against my beliefs: I believe I'm a coward ;)

But really, then he should bloody go there and fight, not hide behind a German passport. If he wants to play German citizen, I won't stop him either, but then the least he can do is stay in Germany and refrain from dragging it into an international conflict.

5. For that matter, I find myself having a hard time mustering up any kind of sympathy for this guy. I may be more inclined to find him excuses if I did, but I can't.

We're not talking about some Che Guevarra who went and actually got shot at for his beliefs. We're talking about a guy who sits comfortably in Cologne and gets others to go get shot at for his beliefs. Probably the closest he's been to seeing that insurgency is occasionally inspecting his "troops", safely across the border from Iran.

The word that comes to mind isn't "revolutionary fighting for his beliefs." It's actually more like "wannabe warlord."
 
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HansMustermann said:
1. What, with radio controlled landmines? I think you just agreed then that the guys planting roadside bombs and sniping US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are a legitimate insurgency.
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No, I didn't. I said they may or may not be. Planting bombs against troops is not an act of terrorism. Taliban and Iraqi insurgents routinely plant bombs against civilian targets, which makes them terrorists, but attacks against troops as such don't.

2. But at any rate, I think sponsoring and aiding guerilla attacks against a state you're not at war with, is... bad form, to say the least. If Iran were training and protecting guerilla troops to conduct armed raids in Iraq, everyone would be shaking fists and talking about "act of war." But the CIA arming the PJAK with those remote controlled mines and whatnot, apparently that's ok, huh?
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It would be an act of war, but not an act of terrorism. Can you tell the difference between the two?

McHrozni
 
There are other cases reported in that article, if anyone bothered to read it through.
 
HansMustermann said:
1. What, with radio controlled landmines? I think you just agreed then that the guys planting roadside bombs and sniping US soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan are a legitimate insurgency.
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I'm long on record here as having the opinion that attacks on combat troops, even American ones, are not terrorism.
 
Speaking of which, nice quote you missed in that article, about some of those poor disidents:

Mr. Rigi's group has launched a series of spectacular raids against the Iranian security forces. The deadliest of these attacks was also the most recent. On Oct. 18, a Jundollah suicide bomber blew himself up near the town of Pishin, Iran, while an official government delegation was visiting the Baluchistan region. The attack killed at least 43 people, including 15 top Revolutionary Guard officers.
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Btw, it also wounded 150 more.

Anyway, I'm not sure a group dealing in suicide bombings is the kind of people I can sympathise with, regardless of whether the victims are civillian or military. But not all victims were military. It also included for example 10 local tribal leaders.
 
Funny how people pick-and-choose their battles so deftly.

No one going to talk about Amir Hamid "Shahram" Homayoun, the Iranian dissident broadcaster and U.S. resident? He was convicted of terrorism in absentia by an Iranian court, apparently without his knowledge, and that's good enough for Interpol. I have to say I'm a bit more skeptical of the Iranian judicial system. Anyone have any idea what sort of terrorism he's charged with, and whether the charges hold up to any scrutiny? Or is he just another dissident being persecuted by Iran on trumped-up charges?
 
Slayhamlet said:
Funny how people pick-and-choose their battles so deftly.

No one going to talk about Amir Hamid "Shahram" Homayoun, the Iranian dissident broadcaster and U.S. resident?
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Maybe because the OP's commentary focused on the help by two European countries in arresting and extraditing Mr. Ahmadi:
Pardalis said:
Germany and Belgium's interpol are now helping the Iranian thugocracy arrest dissidents outside of Iran.
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As Mr. Homayoun is a US resident, he doesn't run the same risk. There is not a shred of evidence that, if he were, say, on vacation in Germany, would be arrested and extradited.

The article also suggests that the arrest warrants in Interpol are already some kind of death sentence. Interpol arrest warrants have been routinely ignored in the past; it's not as if local police and prosecutor don't think for themselves. On the contrary, Interpol only acts as a liaison and a database. The advice the US should stop funding Interpol also seems stupid, and hardly worth the money (the annual budget of Interpol is $59 million). If Iran - or any other country - tries to game the system, the US or other countries should advocate to throw the country out of Interpol or just flag for themselves that arrest warrants from that country should be taken with a big grain of salt.
 
WildCat said:
I'm long on record here as having the opinion that attacks on combat troops, even American ones, are not terrorism.
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well, lets call them illegal combatants then...
You are also long on record on what you are happy to see done with them.

what would be your opinion if Interpol arrested insurgents that had been bombing US troops? It appears that at least...Iran is not just sending in agents to kill them and appears to be trying to use the "system".
 
Speaking of which, I would like to see a source that says anyone is extraditing Mr Rahman Haj Ahmadi or anything. All I can find is that he has been arrested and is investigated in Germany.

On the contrary, in the article I've linked it says that even if such an illegal combatant were to be arrested in Iran, as a German citizen Germany would have to offer him consular support. I.e., it would have to take the side of its imprisoned citizen against Iran.

Also, it seems to me like nobody is taking Teheran's word for it. While it reacted on a tip from Teheran through Interpol, the investigation was done by Germany all along.

It seems to me like a very different picture than the OP article tries to paint. What I see in that OP article is an idiot journalist trying to distort the facts and do a bit of emotional sophistry out of it.

ETA: and just to address that too, Homayoun seems to be only in that article at all as a lame attempt at an implied "by association" fallacy. It seems to be there and as the last of the cases mentioned, just to create an image that the other two are more or less just on par with him.
 
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Slayhamlet said:
Funny how people pick-and-choose their battles so deftly.

No one going to talk about Amir Hamid "Shahram" Homayoun, the Iranian dissident broadcaster and U.S. resident? He was convicted of terrorism in absentia by an Iranian court, apparently without his knowledge, and that's good enough for Interpol. I have to say I'm a bit more skeptical of the Iranian judicial system. Anyone have any idea what sort of terrorism he's charged with, and whether the charges hold up to any scrutiny? Or is he just another dissident being persecuted by Iran on trumped-up charges?
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I'm sure you have stopped beating your wife now.

What do we actually know about Mr. Homayoun?

Having said that, if Interpol relied only on the conviction of an Iranian court, it would be a disgrace.
 
HansMustermann said:
ETA: and just to address that too, Homayoun seems to be only in that article at all as a lame attempt at an implied "by association" fallacy. It seems to be there and as the last of the cases mentioned, just to create an image that the other two are more or less just on par with him.
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Are you saying he is not wanted by Interpol?

http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2009/32/2009_22132.asp

The guy runs a website. Is that terrorism?


ETA:

Strangely enough, Iran's own Defense Minister is also wanted by Interpol...

http://www.interpol.int/Public/data/wanted/notices/data/2007/57/2007_49957.asp

:eusa_think:
 
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Pardalis said:
Are you saying he is not wanted by Interpol?

http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2009/32/2009_22132.asp

The guy runs a website. Is that terrorism?
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He cannot be "wanted" by Interpol. Interpol can't arrest someone. See the explanation page:
An Interpol Red Notice is not an international arrest warrant.

These Interpol 'Red Notices' represent only a tiny fraction of the number of red notices issued by Interpol.

The persons concerned are wanted by national jurisdictions (or the International Criminal Tribunals, where appropriate) and Interpol's role is to assist the national police forces in identifying or locating those persons with a view to their arrest and extradition.

[...]

The person should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
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The person should be considered innocent until proven guilty.
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Tell that to the Iranian justice system once Interpol has successfully ratted these people out to them.

But hey, their hands are clean, they're just putting the notice out, kind of like a modern version of Pontius Pilate.
 
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