Iran now a pirate state?

[McHrozni]

Iranian revolutionary guard navy has siezed M/V Maersk Tigris from international waters, for violating it's terrirotial waters.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that qualifies as piracy on the high seas, no?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/28/p...fficial-says-no-americans-on-board/index.html

McHrozni

 

[TragicMonkey]

Arrrrrran?

 

[crescent]

Iranian revolutionary guard navy has siezed M/V Maersk Tigris from international waters, for violating it's terrirotial waters.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that qualifies as piracy on the high seas, no?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/28/p...fficial-says-no-americans-on-board/index.html

McHrozni

My theories is that reactionaries within the Iranian military or revolutionary guards are trying to provoke a response. That way they can scuttle the recent nuclear agreement.

 

[Ziggurat]

My theories is that reactionaries within the Iranian military or revolutionary guards are trying to provoke a response. That way they can scuttle the recent nuclear agreement.

Why would they do that, when the agreement lets them get a nuclear bomb with a little bit of patience? I suspect this has more to do with Yemen than with the nuclear deal. They don't want us stopping any of their ships resupplying the Houthi, this may be their way of showing a willingness to retaliate if we do.

At any rate, it looks like they may have released the ship.
https://twitter.com/zaidbenjamin/status/593085549549858816

 

[Giz]

Iran?

 

[dudalb]

My theories is that reactionaries within the Iranian military or revolutionary guards are trying to provoke a response. That way they can scuttle the recent nuclear agreement.

That was my first thought. And it puts Obama in a tight spot. If these acts of piracy continue, he will have no choice but to respond.
Only bad thing for the Iranian pirates is their timing;Baltimore is going to dominate the news.

 

[Babbylonian]

Iranian revolutionary guard navy has siezed M/V Maersk Tigris from international waters, for violating it's terrirotial waters.

At its narrowest, there are no international waters in the Strait of Hormuz, and most of it is within Iran's internationally recognized territory.

That's not to say that these Iranians were (at all) in the right but it's always worth noting why the area continues to be a potential flashpoint.

 

[angrysoba]

That was my first thought. And it puts Obama in a tight spot. If these acts of piracy continue, he will have no choice but to respond.
Only bad thing for the Iranian pirates is their timing;Baltimore is going to dominate the news.

Not in the Rest of the World where the earthquake in Nepal is the major news event.

 

[MG1962]

At its narrowest, there are no international waters in the Strait of Hormuz, and most of it is within Iran's internationally recognized territory.

That's not to say that these Iranians were (at all) in the right but it's always worth noting why the area continues to be a potential flashpoint.

Well umm yes sort of. One of the problems is that Iran allow transit through its territorial waters through the UNCLOS agreement. Unfortunately the US never ratified the treaty, so technically any US ship sailing through the area does so at the pleasure of Iran.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

Well umm yes sort of. One of the problems is that Iran allow transit through its territorial waters through the UNCLOS agreement. Unfortunately the US never ratified the treaty, so technically any US ship sailing through the area does so at the pleasure of Iran.

Technically, they do so because nobody can stop them.

 

[MG1962]

Technically, they do so because nobody can stop them.

Agreed, which is the whole point of sea power . However given the legality of the situation, I believe claims of piracy to be a gross over reaction. Mind you I am doubtful it was even a US flagged ship as also claimed by CNN. The Marshall Islands are in free association with the US but I don't know how that affects their standing in Maritime Law

 

[Babbylonian]

Agreed, which is the whole point of sea power . However given the legality of the situation, I believe claims of piracy to be a gross over reaction. Mind you I am doubtful it was even a US flagged ship as also claimed by CNN. The Marshall Islands are in free association with the US but I don't know how that affects their standing in Maritime Law

At the risk of being called an Iran apologist, that was part of my point as well.

If a ship was in United States territorial waters, even if it was explicitly permitted to be there, it would not necessarily be "piracy" if the United States, or even the applicable individual state, decided that it was necessary to take the ship and its crew into custody.

 

[MG1962]

At the risk of being called an Iran apologist, that was part of my point as well.

If a ship was in United States territorial waters, even if it was explicitly permitted to be there, it would not necessarily be "piracy" if the United States, or even the applicable individual state, decided that it was necessary to take the ship and its crew into custody.

Well the news article has been updated as well. Seems the Iranian's cornered the ship due to some sort of unpaid port charges. Which every country in the world is entitled to do.

So this is looking more and more like a storm in a chocolate tea pot. Riots must be running late in Baltimore. Don't people realize CNN have a news channel to run And a schedule to keep. What the hell is Anderson Cooper supposed to do now???????

 

[Darth Rotor]

My theories is that reactionaries within the Iranian military or revolutionary guards are trying to provoke a response. That way they can scuttle the recent nuclear agreement.

Provoke a response? Yes. Scuttle the deal where they came out OK? No.

At its narrowest, there are no international waters in the Strait of Hormuz, and most of it is within Iran's internationally recognized territory.

Please head to google and take a look at the transit passage deal in the Straits of Hormuz, which is internationally agreed.

 

[Babbylonian]

Please head to google and take a look at the transit passage deal in the Straits of Hormuz, which is internationally agreed.

I'll do that right after that was not my point. Save your condescension for a rainy day.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I'll do that right after that was not my point. Save your condescension for a rainy day.

Then why did you say it like this?

At its narrowest, there are no international waters in the Strait of Hormuz, and most of it is within Iran's internationally recognized territory.

That passage transit accommodates the problem of restricted waters between nations whose claims overlap. If you don't want to be corrected, try not to make blatant errors.

 

[MG1962]

Please head to google and take a look at the transit passage deal in the Straits of Hormuz, which is internationally agreed.

No, as I pointed out in post #9 The US never signed the agreement

 

[Babbylonian]

Then why did you say it like this?

That passage transit accommodates the problem of restricted waters between nations whose claims overlap. If you don't want to be corrected, try not to make blatant errors.

Nations ignore treaties all the time, and the moment a nation decides strictly abiding by a treaty isn't in its best interest then it's temporarily null at best and completely void at worst.

If the US was in Iran's spot on the map, we'd be pulling ships out of line all the time. Of course, we also would have solidified our control of every piece of land bordering the Strait, too.Manifest destiny and all that.

In any case, If I didn't phrase myself precisely enough or offer enough clarification, I humbly apologize. That, however, doesn't excuse your condescension, nor does it excuse the immediate, over-the-top characterization of Iran's actions as piracy.

 

[Darth Rotor]

No, as I pointed out in post #9 The US never signed the agreement

Irrelevant.
The US has agreed to that provision of the ILOS, and recongnizes that transit passage as well as others. So too have the two nations involved.

Sorry, it's been 20 years since I had to look this up when I was in the Navy, but it's been an agreed protocol for longer than this set of forums has existed.

That ILOS has not yet been signed does not invalidate the accords that allow ships to pass that narrow sea, nor the competing claims in the Aegean between Turkey and Greece.
From an easy Wiki entry, so I don't have to dig boxes out of the attic:

Navigation[edit]
To reduce the risk of collision, ships moving through the Strait follow a Traffic Separation Scheme (TSS): inbound ships use one lane, outbound ships another, each lane being two miles wide. The lanes are separated by a two-mile-wide "median".

To traverse the Strait, ships pass through the territorial waters of Iran and Oman under the transit passage provisions of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.[4] Although not all countries have ratified the convention,[5] most countries, including the U.S.,[6] accept these customary navigation rules as codified in the Convention.

Good day to you both.

 

[MG1962]

Irrelevant.
The US has agreed to that provision of the ILOS, and recongnizes that transit passage as well as others. So too have the two nations involved..

Iran is not compelled to honor US transits if the US is not a signatory.