Iran gets pushy in a nuclear way.

[Mycroft]

Hand over nuclear weapons and know-how, Iran tells Britain
By Anton La Guardia, Diplomatic Editor

Iran has issued an extraordinary list of demands to Britain and other European countries, telling them to provide advanced nuclear technology, conventional weapons and a security guarantee against nuclear attack by Israel.

Teheran's request, said by British officials to have "gone down very badly", sharply raises the stakes in the crisis over Iran's nuclear programme, which Britain and America believe is aimed at making an atomic bomb.

Iran's move came during crisis talks in Paris this month with senior diplomats from Britain, France and Germany.

The "EU-3" were trying to convince Iranian officials to honour an earlier deal to suspend its controversial uranium enrichment programme, which is ostensibly designed to make fuel for nuclear power stations but could also be used to make fissile material for nuclear bombs. Iranian officials refused point-blank to comply, saying they had every right under international law to pursue "peaceful" nuclear technology.

They then stunned the Europeans by presenting a letter setting out their own demands.

http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/08/11/wiran11.xml

I know, let's try diplomacy!

 

[The Fool]

I think all middle eastern countries found in possesion of Nuclear weapons should have them removed, forcibly if necessary....

I'm not fully up on the nuclear issue, can someone give me a list of all the countries in the middle east with nuclear weapons?

 

[RandFan]

I think all middle eastern countries found in possesion of Nuclear weapons should have them removed, forcibly if necessary....

I'm not fully up on the nuclear issue, can someone give me a list of all the countries in the middle east with nuclear weapons?

How about a full list of everone?

Declared
United States - 10,640
Russia - 8,600
People's Republic of China - 400
France - 350
United Kingdom - 200
India - 60-90
Pakistan - 24-48

From a high of 65,000 weapons in 1985, there were about 40,000 nuclear weapons in the world in 2002.

Suspected
Israel - It is questionable whether Israel should be classed as a "suspected state" at this point.
North Korea
Ukraine

 

[evildave]

Didn't South Africa have one, and 'dismantled' it?

Better get cracking and invade Pakistan, The Fool. It's in the Middle East, and arguably, so is some of India and China and Russia, as well as some former Soviet republics.

Just because a nation is *not* in the Middle East doesn't mean they'll be any more responsible with nukes.

'Who's Next', by Tom Lehrer is an appropriate listen.

... but just in case, we better get a bomb!

Follow up with 'So Long Mom (I'm off to drop the bomb)'

The list of 'nuclear capable' nations (that could build a bomb PDQ, if they wanted to) is very long.

Of course, having our el-presidente defanging and sabotaging anti-nuke treaties (probably because he wants to set some off to get his rocks off) doesn't help matters.

 

[The Fool]

How about a full list of everone?

Declared
United States - 10,640
Russia - 8,600
People's Republic of China - 400
France - 350
United Kingdom - 200
India - 60-90
Pakistan - 24-48

From a high of 65,000 weapons in 1985, there were about 40,000 nuclear weapons in the world in 2002.

Suspected
Israel - It is questionable whether Israel should be classed as a "suspected state" at this point.
North Korea
Ukraine

excellent..
Now we have your list should we start from the top or the bottom in removing these Nuclear weapons from them? Maybe start with the ones that have not got many, or go for the most first to speed up the process? Maybe alphabetical order to make it fair?

 

[Segnosaur]

I think all middle eastern countries found in possesion of Nuclear weapons should have them removed, forcibly if necessary....

How about just all middle eastern countries who have signed agreements that they will not obtain nuclear weapons?

(Hint: Isreal would not be counted)

 

[Mr Manifesto]

I'm also a bit shaky on the nuclear issue. How many countries have really gotten pushy in a nuclear way by bombing civilians with them?

Which countries won't disclose how many nuclear weapons they have, proliferation treaty or not?

Which countries might be reacting to being listed as part of the 'axis of evil' and might also be, for some paranoid reason, worrying about a unilateral attack upon them?

 

[crimresearch]

How about a full list of everone?

Declared
United States - 10,640
Russia - 8,600
People's Republic of China - 400
France - 350
United Kingdom - 200
India - 60-90
Pakistan - 24-48

From a high of 65,000 weapons in 1985, there were about 40,000 nuclear weapons in the world in 2002.

Suspected
Israel - It is questionable whether Israel should be classed as a "suspected state" at this point.
North Korea
Ukraine

And we might want to remain skeptical of countries who loudly trumpet their refusal to become part of the nuclear menace, but who not only have the capability, they also have too much to lose NOT to have at least a couple stashed away somewhere, just in case....not that they would ever use them, you see, it is just that all the other countries have them, so....

Canada?
Japan?
Australia?
Taiwan?
Duchy of Grand Fenwick?
Mexico?
Texas?

 

[Tmy]

Will teh big powers allow a country have nuke power plants wh/o having nuke weapons.

These smaller countries argue that they need the power plants and have no interest in weapons.

 

[aerocontrols]

How about just all middle eastern countries who have signed agreements that they will not obtain nuclear weapons?

(Hint: Isreal would not be counted)

I've tried that argument, over and over.

Don't you know the NPT is 'unfair'?

 

[aerocontrols]

Will teh big powers allow a country have nuke power plants wh/o having nuke weapons.

These smaller countries argue that they need the power plants and have no interest in weapons.

Here's a list.

Providing small countries with nuclear power while monitoring them so they don't develop nuclear weapons is the point of the NPT.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

RANDFAN

Suspected

Israel - It is questionable whether Israel should be classed as a "suspected state" at this point.
Mordicy Vanunu


North Korea The CIA estimates they have 2-4


Ukraine They do indeed have nukes left over fron the Soviet system. Number unknown.

Tmy It takes a special kind of reactor to make weapons grade fissile material altho there are hundreds of "research" reactors worldwide that use highly enriched Uranium, which by itself could make a crude nuke.

 

[Agammamon]

I'm also a bit shaky on the nuclear issue. How many countries have really gotten pushy in a nuclear way by bombing civilians with them?. . .
Which countries might be reacting to being listed as part of the 'axis of evil' and might also be, for some paranoid reason, worrying about a unilateral attack upon them?

So far only one country has gotten pushy and used nuclear weapons against civilians - The United States

As for the second part, North Korea should be at the top of a long list probably followed closely by Iran.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

The PNAC document was explicit about taking on Arab states in the middle east one at a time, It's signatories include Chaney,Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Jeb Bush.

Now lemee see Afganastan,Iraq.............
Ya think maybe others have read the document and seen what the US is doing.

 

[Grammatron]

The PNAC document was explicit about taking on Arab states in the middle east one at a time, It's signatories include Chaney,Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld and Jeb Bush.

Now lemee see Afganastan,Iraq.............
Ya think maybe others have read the document and seen what the US is doing.

Well we invaded Afghanistan because of 9/11. Are you insinuating that we knew/orchestrated 9/11 to invade Afghanistan? Please don't be shy to be specific about that.

 

[TillEulenspiegel]

No Sir not at all, I supported the action in Afghanistan. Iraq however is more problematic, Iran? Who knows. I am mearly stating the world's interpretation of out actions especially in light of a document that seemingly is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Grammatron]

No Sir not at all, I supported the action in Afghanistan. Iraq however is more problematic, Iran? Who knows. I am mearly stating the world's interpretation of out actions especially in light of a document that seemingly is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Fair enough.

I don't think going into Iran would be a good idea, there is a rebellious, reformer base there that could take charge of the country. Invading it would push it back toward hard-liner point of view. Still, we have to do something about their violation of NPT.

 

[Hutch]

I don't think going into Iran would be a good idea, there is a rebellious, reformer base there that could take charge of the country. Invading it would push it back toward hard-liner point of view.

Concur, which makes me wonder why on another thread you stated we had to "deal" with Iran.

Still, we have to do something about their violation of NPT.

While I can agree with this, the rub comes on how? Let us be honest now, Iran will try to develop Nukes (treaty or no) if for no other reason that Iraq = Thinking about nukes but no program = Invasion versus N. Korea = Nukes = Negotiations and food aid. Even the Mad Mullahs can add that one up.

I'll make further comments on this topic on BSPCG's (sic) thread.

 

[Larspeart]

I'm also a bit shaky on the nuclear issue. How many countries have really gotten pushy in a nuclear way by bombing civilians with them?

Which countries won't disclose how many nuclear weapons they have, proliferation treaty or not?

Which countries might be reacting to being listed as part of the 'axis of evil' and might also be, for some paranoid reason, worrying about a unilateral attack upon them?

Most of the countries on the list, Russia being the prime culprit. The declared number, adn the suspected number of Russian nukes is at odds. Most international and UN experts have the russians pegged at 18,000-24,000 functional nukes of various sizes, down to small 'battlefield-sized tactical nukes' fitted into tank munitions.