Iran crackin' down...

[ZARDOZ]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8504541.stm

An Iranian opposition leader has been jailed for six years for his role in the unrest following June's disputed presidential election, reports say. Mohsen Aminzadeh was convicted of organising protests, disturbing security and spreading propaganda against the system, his lawyer said. He was a prominent supporter of the defeated candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi.

Six years for opposing Ahmadinejad... goodness, sounds like Nazi Germany during Hitler's reign. In another thread I commented that I work with a guy from Iran who is visiting on a work visa. His wife is a semi-famous musician with the Tehran Symphony Orchestra. They have had friends who support Mousavi taken in for questioning, his wife, and other friends, have been beaten by police at Green protests, other people they know - who have been very vocal - have had their flats ransacked by the police. His wife keeps him updated via Skype almost daily.

With all that said BBC has a "Have your Say" section and the question is "How should the world react to Iran’s nuclear regime?" And the top 5 reader's-recommended replies are all pointing fingers at the USA and Israel:

"So it's alright for Israel to have nuclear weapons.." "It's hypocrite nations like Israel and USA.." "Obviously behind it are Israel and warmonger-circles in the US..." "Israel is the biggest troublemaker in middle east and gets away with everything it does...." "n the same way the world reacted to the Israelis nuclear regime...."

http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thr...=7487&edition=2&ttl=20100209161736&#paginator

Which leads me to the question, since these "Have Your Say" reader's-recommended replies are mainly by Europeans, are many Europeans really blind about the dangers a nuclear-armed Iran poses?

(Now before the strawman is created for me that I said "all europeans are blind about the threat Iran poses" is run up the flagpole I just want to say on record I never said that...nor do I believe it.)

 

[Thunder]

Six years for opposing Ahmadinejad... goodness, sounds like Nazi Germany during Hitler's reign.

no...Hitler sent you to the gas chambers for opposing him.

 

[Thunder]

While Iran is indeed wrong to jail people for opposing beliefs, they are in no way acting like the Nazis.

we don't have to make false accusations of Iran being equal to Nazi Germany, in order to try to force them to stop nuclear enrichment.

 

[Pardalis]

Iran executes protesters.

With the government’s opponents planning another large demonstration on Feb. 11, the country is bracing for another wave of executions. At least nine other prisoners have been charged with the capital crime of moharebeh, which means waging war against God.[...]
On Saturday, the authorities held a trial for 16 protesters who were arrested in mass demonstrations on Dec. 27, the Shiite holy day of Ashura, during which at least eight protesters were killed. The prosecutor asked for the death sentence for five of them.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/02/world/middleeast/02iran.html

http://www.truthout.org/government-executes-protesters-iran56545

Iran hanged two opposition protesters on Thursday and sentenced nine more to death for taking part in widespread rallies against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad following last June's presidential election.[...]In a speech just before the reopening of universities last August, the Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei called university professors "key elements in creating a velvet revolution in the country" and asked that all universities be "purified" of those who contributed to unrest. According to sources inside the country, this was reason enough for a wave of forced retirements and firings by universities. Law, social and political studies were the departments first targeted, but it later crept into other fields such as economics.

 

[funk de fino]

With all that said BBC has a "Have your Say" section and the question is "How should the world react to Iran’s nuclear regime?" And the top 5 reader's-recommended replies are all pointing fingers at the USA and Israel:
Which leads me to the question, since these "Have Your Say" reader's-recommended replies are mainly by Europeans, are many Europeans really blind about the dangers a nuclear-armed Iran poses?

And a good few are Canadian. Are many Canadians really blind to............

 

[The Atheist]

Which leads me to the question, since these "Have Your Say" reader's-recommended replies are mainly by Europeans, are many Europeans really blind about the dangers a nuclear-armed Iran poses?

No, I think it's more a case of seeing that Iran is right to feel threatened, and since they feel threatened by Israel and USA, an attack on Europe is not very likely.

There's also the excellent point that if Israel and USA didn't wave nuclear weapons in Iran's face all the time, their desire for owning nukes might be considerably less.

The final lesson should indeed be Iran's though. Instead of worrying about jailing or executing opposition, just act like Dubbya - ignore the election result and steal the country anyway.

Which possibly also accounts for European attitudes of looking at the whole US/Israel/Iran business and realising that there are several pots and kettles in the mix.

What should those Euros think?

 

[ZARDOZ]

And a good few are Canadian. Are many Canadians really blind to............

Since I am a Canuk I can tell you that 99.99% of my fellow Canadians I have had a conversation with regarding the Iranian regime are very concerned about Iran. The combination of the Iranian Mullahs cracking down on every-day folk who oppose Ahmadinejad, the Iranian support for Hamas and Hezbollah, and that Ahmadinejad is truly a nutcase is cause for serious concern. Add nuclear weapons to that mix and frankly you could have a serious issue with terror groups getting a dirty bomb or Iran attacking Sunni countries they don't particularly like. (We already know what Ahmadinejad wants to do with Israel..)

So my question - using the BBC "Have Your Say" top-recommended posts as a barometer - is still a valid question. Why are the top recommended posts there by Europeans dismissive of Iran's potential threat? Is that the tone in Europe?

ETA

What should those Euros think?

I am not the judge of what Europeans should think. I am just wondering what they think. For instance in a few years Iran will have a missile that could reach most European capitals. Iran has also threatened to strike "British and American targets":

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article706132.ece

IRAN has formed battalions of suicide bombers to strike at British and American targets if the nation’s nuclear sites are attacked. According to Iranian officials, 40,000 trained suicide bombers are ready for action. The main force, named the Special Unit of Martyr Seekers in the Revolutionary Guards, was first seen last month when members marched in a military parade, dressed in olive-green uniforms with explosive packs around their waists and detonators held high.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/09/60minutes/main1879867_page6.shtml

"Last one," Wallace said. "You have a special unit of martyr seekers in your revolutionary guard. They claim they have 52,000 trained suicide bombers ready to attack American and British targets if America should attack Iran."

"So, are you expecting the Americans to threaten us and we sit idly by and watch them with our hands … tied?" Ahmadinejad said.

That's not a denial by Ahmadinejad that trained suicide bombers are ready to go.

 

[WildCat]

No, I think it's more a case of seeing that Iran is right to feel threatened, and since they feel threatened by Israel and USA, an attack on Europe is not very likely.

Why would Iran feel threatened by Israel? Why is Iran sending arms to Hamas and Hezbollah to wage war on Israel? Why is Iran training Hamas and Hezbollah fighters to fight Israel?

There's also the excellent point that if Israel and USA didn't wave nuclear weapons in Iran's face all the time, their desire for owning nukes might be considerably less.

Nobody has waved nuclear weapons in Iran's face. Iran is ostracized because they are a state that supports terrorism. The USA wouldn't even care about Iran if they didn't support terrorism.

The final lesson should indeed be Iran's though. Instead of worrying about jailing or executing opposition, just act like Dubbya - ignore the election result and steal the country anyway.

Your ignorance of the 2000 election is stunning. Feel free to bump an existing thread on it if you want to prove to the JREF once again how little you know about... well, anything.

 

[ZARDOZ]

Nobody has waved nuclear weapons in Iran's face. Iran is ostracized because they are a state that supports terrorism. The USA wouldn't even care about Iran if they didn't support terrorism.

Nor do people in the US or Israel chant "Death to ________________" at every turn. Look at the news today.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1148593.html

About 100 Iranians protested Tuesday in front of the Italian embassy in Tehran, shouting Death to Italy, Death to Berlusconi, Italy's foreign minister said.

Protests were also held outside the French and Dutch embassies.

http://www.france24.com/en/20100209...s-try-storm-italian-embassy-tehran-berlusconi

Around 100 pro-government militia members tried to storm Italy's embassy in Tehran on Tuesday, Italy's foreign minister has said. Italy has cancelled its attendance at Thursday's ceremonies in Tehran marking the anniversary of the Iranian Revolution.

Those ain't American and Israeli embassies these pro-government militia members are trying to storm. And that is why European ambivalence confuses me - if I use the BBC "Have Your Say" top-recommended posts as a barometer.

ETA

These Iranian militia members are VERY serious about these public "death to _________________" statements.

 

[The Atheist]

Why would Iran feel threatened by Israel?

Oh, I don;t know. Maybe the history of an over-armed country with a history of attacking countries in the vicinity while practicing apartheid within its borders.

Something along those lines.

Why is Iran sending arms to Hamas and Hezbollah to wage war on Israel? Why is Iran training Hamas and Hezbollah fighters to fight Israel?

See above.

Nobody has waved nuclear weapons in Iran's face. Iran is ostracized because they are a state that supports terrorism. The USA wouldn't even care about Iran if they didn't support terrorism.

My word, they certainly hooked you in the school of polidiocy didn't they? Polidiocy is like theodicy, but done in political questions.

Shall we now discuss Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

Your ignorance of the 2000 election is stunning. Feel free to bump an existing thread on it if you want to prove to the JREF once again how little you know about... well, anything.

Oh, so Bush won the election fair & square?

You seem like such a reliable source, too.

 

[dudalb]

There is nothing the Iranian Government will not do that The Athiest will not justify or explain away, apparently.

Oh, I don;t know. Maybe the history of an over-armed country with a history of attacking countries in the vicinity while practicing apartheid within its borders.

Interesting that the Athiest justify Iran's action by saying they are threatned by their neighbors, but does not allow Israel the same justification.
The way he is going his next act will be justifying the 9/11 Attacks.

 

[Pardalis]

Odd that an atheist would jump to the defense of a totalitarian Islamic regime.

 

[Darat]

I would suggest that using "Have your say" as a barometer of anything but levels of spittle is likely to lead you astray: http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/

 

[applecorped]

I would suggest that using "Have your say" as a barometer of anything but levels of spittle is likely to lead you astray: http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/

From the link:

"Try and forget that you’ve pissed a substantial portion of your life away patiently shoveling lorry-loads of arseblubber into the internet."




Words to live by people.

 

[ddt]

Six years for opposing Ahmadinejad... goodness, sounds like Nazi Germany during Hitler's reign.

<snip>

With all that said BBC has a "Have your Say" section and the question is "How should the world react to Iran’s nuclear regime?" And the top 5 reader's-recommended replies are all pointing fingers at the USA and Israel:

Can you spot the strawman you erected? You're trying to tie Iran's internal policy with its foreign policy, and you use Nazi Germany to justify that. Are you as concerned with China having nukes, or the Soviet Union? Those countries are/were comparably harsh on their citizens. That doesn't say a thing about their foreign policies.

And while Ahmadinejad gives vile hate speech, I don't think he's a nutcase, and I don't think the Iranian regime as a whole is foolish enough to start dangerous adventures. Moreover, they're old enough to remember the horrific Iran-Iraq war.

As to the fingerpointing to the US and Israel: don't you think Iran is more than a bit nervous with US troops on its western and its eastern borders - and Dubya calling it for eight years part of the "Axis of Evil", and openly musing about an invasion? Likewise, in Israel the discourse is more "when do we attack Iran" then "should we attack Iran". And there's precedent too - Osirak.

Really, when it comes to nukes I'm more worried about the Pakistani ones. Who knows who rules there tomorrow...

 

[ponderingturtle]

no...Hitler sent you to the gas chambers for opposing him.

I just thought he had them killed in more traditional manners. At least for high level opposition like this.

 

[WildCat]

Oh, I don;t know. Maybe the history of an over-armed country with a history of attacking countries in the vicinity while practicing apartheid within its borders.

Disregarding for the moment your curious claim that fighting invaders constitutes "attacking countries in the vicinity", you may want to check your map. Iran is not "in the vicinity" of Iran by most non-astronomical uses of the term. And I'm sure you feel they're over armed, since they have been able to fend off 4 invasion attempts. Must really gnaw at you that Israel still exists, doesn't it?

Israel has never attacked Iran, yet Iran has been financing, training, and arming insurrections against Israel for 30 years. And according to you Israel is the aggressor?

Something along those lines.

So it's all based on your personal delusions?

See above.

So it really is all about your personal delusions brought about through your stunning ignorance of history??

My word, they certainly hooked you in the school of polidiocy didn't they? Polidiocy is like theodicy, but done in political questions.

No, I didn't go to your school. I could never hope to match your political idiocy, I admit you are the master of that.

Oh, so Bush won the election fair & square?

You seem like such a reliable source, too.

I'm not the source.

Now, I certainly don't expect you to stop digging this hole for yourself. I eagerly await your next post to see just how anxious you are demonstrate to the whole forum your dizzying display of pretend intellect.

 

[Cleon]

 

[ZARDOZ]

Can you spot the strawman you erected? You're trying to tie Iran's internal policy with its foreign policy, and you use Nazi Germany to justify that.

Sorry but I did not use Nazi Germany to justify anything. I said it sounds like Nazi Germany.. how the Iranian regime is throwing opposition leaders into jail. Please stop with the strawmen which you are clearly trying to create with a blatant false claim.

Are you as concerned with China having nukes, or the Soviet Union? Those countries are/were comparably harsh on their citizens. That doesn't say a thing about their foreign policies.

Iran supports Hamas and Hezbollah openly. They support insurgents in Iraq. That's Iran's foreign policy... using proxies. You can't sweep that under the rug ddt.

I would suggest that using "Have your say" as a barometer of anything but levels of spittle is likely to lead you astray: http://ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.com/

I agree that the BBC's "Have Your Say" is a bunch of random people posting. But aside from the randomness these posts, what I find disturbing is that the most recommended posts on "Have Your Say" seem to be penned by Europeans. And that these most-recommended posts seem to follow a general anti-Israel, anti-USA theme. Do these man-on-the-street European posters have amnesia? Don't they remember what happened 60 years ago when Europe ignored another "guy" who openly telegraphed his future intentions?

Oh, I don;t know. Maybe the history of an over-armed country with a history of attacking countries in the vicinity while practicing apartheid within its borders.

Damn if that ain't spin I dunno what is. Hahahahahaha! Thanks for the belly laugh The Atheist.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

I agree that the BBC's "Have Your Say" is a bunch of random people posting. But aside from the randomness these posts, what I find disturbing is that the most recommended posts on "Have Your Say" seem to be penned by Europeans. And that these most-recommended posts seem to follow a general anti-Israel, anti-USA theme.

...snip...

And all I can reply with is "and?". So some random folks post some things and from that you want to draw such conclusions, invoking stuff like pre-WWII? It seems a rather large leap to me.