Iran attacks british forces

[geni]

Fifteen British Navy personnel have been captured at gunpoint by Iranian forces, the Ministry of Defence says.

The men were seized at 1030 local time when they boarded a boat in the Gulf, off the coast of Iraq, which they suspected was smuggling cars.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6484279.stm


I could understand NK pulling this kind of stunt but Iran?

 

[Pro7]

this will give bush a reason.

 

[BPSCG]

I could understand NK pulling this kind of stunt but Iran?

You're right; one of them is an oppressive, unstable-fanatic-run totalitarian state increasingly flexing its muscles while attempting to acquire nuclear weapons. The other is a small country just west of Japan.

He said naval authorities were doing everything possible to ensure their safe return...

"The British government is demanding the immediate and safe return of our people and equipment."

Or else what?

 

[andyandy]

apparently they could be looking to link this to the current incarceration of 5 iranians [diplomats/revolutionary guards depending on who you believe] in Iraq. Expect some "you release ours, we'll release yours" bargaining....

 

[geni]

You're right; one of them is an oppressive, unstable-fanatic-run totalitarian state increasingly flexing its muscles while attempting to acquire nuclear weapons. The other is a small country just west of Japan.

NK tends to only think in the short term which is why they have done things like this in the past. Iran though is generaly a bit more careful.

Or else what?

Well technicaly anything up to and includeing reduceing Tehran to smokeing bedrock.

However on the basis we don't appear to have heard from Blair or Brown not much.

 

[Tailgater]

this will give bush a reason.

Didn't know he was president of UK too.

 

[Hutch]

apparently they could be looking to link this to the current incarceration of 5 iranians [diplomats/revolutionary guards depending on who you believe] in Iraq. Expect some "you release ours, we'll release yours" bargaining....

Not an impossible supposition, andy x 2. The other is that some local commander went off on his own and now the Government has to find a way out without embarrasment.

I'm sure The Mail and The Telegraph are pining for the glorious days of the old empire, where a British Man-o-War would sail up to the nearest port and drop a few shells on the town until the "wogs" returned the sailors.

Trouble is, the "wogs" now have missiles and guns of their own--and know how to use them. Takes all the fun out of Empires...

We shall see. I expect a quick resolution--but you never know...

 

[Dr Adequate]

Or else what?

Or else ... we have all the military options that the US has, including nukes.

---

But apart from that, think about what you just said, you ******* lump of ****.

When your country came under attack on 9/11, we didn't stand about saying "so what are you going to do about it?" We pledged ourselves as your allies. Tony Blair stood on the steps of 10 Downing Street and said that we stood "shoulder to shoulder" with you --- and I wept.

And now, you ******* ****, you see that a member of the "axis of evil" has taken military action against British servicemen, we issue an ultimatum, and your response, as an American, is "or else what"?

You stupid whining ungrateful son of a bitch --- or else you and your country can **** off and die, do I make myself clear?

If you want to have allies, you should be allied to them. We are still fighting "shoulder to shoulder" with you in Afghanistan and Iraq; we have given our money and the blood of our children for your cause --- and you, it seems, have no gratitude, no decency, and no honor.

If I thought that every American was so personally stunted and morally crippled as you are, then on 9/11 I'd have gone out into the streets and danced the Palestinian Fandango.

Do I make myself clear?

Dr. Adequate; You have an obligation under your membership agreement to remain civil toward other members of the forum. In the future, please refrain from posting in a way that personalizes the argument.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jmercer

 

[Darth Rotor]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6484279.stm

I could understand NK pulling this kind of stunt but Iran?

Geni, this is not the first time Brits have been arrested in Shatt al Arab, it happened in 2004, June.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2004-06-21-iran_x.htm

It got sorted out then, this will get sorted out.

CmdrStone, you are full of beans. The Iranian Navy was most likely enforcing their territorial waters, just as Canada arrested a Spanish fishing ship a few years back. This is not aggression of any sort by Iran.

Dr A:

Hmm, interesting rant.

Please note that this will most likely get sorted out as the 2004 incident did, the Brits are good at working with people in that part of the world.

ETA: Admiral Fallon is not an idiot. Tony Blair is not an idiot. Robert Gates is not an idiot. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not an idiot. The usual outcome is to let the papers print their bullspit, and work out a deal. The news cycle is in many cases a lot of ash and trash.

DR

 

[Dr Adequate]

Hmm, interesting rant.

I post something like this every three months or so, when the right-wing loonies forget that we're your allies, and start banging on about how we're all cowards and want to appease terrorists and are just going to lie down while our 2% Muslim population are going to impose shari'a law 'cos we're all "liberals" and for some magic reason will therefore welcome Islamofascism.

I hear this endless hateful whining again and again from the right-wing US whackjobs.

We've spent billions to support America, and our soldiers keep on dying because we're fighting on your side, and now ...

And now people like BPSGC won't support the UK against Iran, when we are clearly in the right.

As I said, people like this display:

No gratitude.

No decency.

No honor.

I recall that you are an ex-serviceman, so I suppose that you understand what I'm talking about. When you fought alongside the British, you wouldn't have left a British serviceman to be captured 'cos "or else what". You yourself would have been the "or else". That is what I mean by "honor".

And this is what ****s like BPSGC will never understand.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I recall that you are an ex-serviceman, so I suppose that you understand what I'm talking about. When you fought alongside the British, you wouldn't have left a British serviceman to be captured 'cos "or else what". You yourself would have been the "or else". That is what I mean by "honor".

And this is what ****s like BPSGC will never understand.

One of my most trusted colleagues for about 4 months in a hot and nasty place was an RAF Wing Commander. My office mate for three years in NATO was a Royal Navy commander. A Royal Marine Major was also in my circle of "favorite people" in my NATO job.

My brothers in arms, end of story.

DR

 

[Garrette]

While I very strongly suspect that Darth Rotor is correct in his assessment that this will get worked out, I've little doubt the US will back the UK in whatever course it takes, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I've worked with the Brits, too, and would stand alongside them under any circumstance if only for another opportunity to eat in their Officer's Mess. That's the way an army should be.

As a bit of an aside, one gentleman with whom I worked somewhat closely and who was among the most respected of servicemembers during the early days after the fall of Baghdad, especially in the HACC and the CPA, was Colonel Schollum. Australian, to be technical about it, but the feeling's were the same, and once past the professionalism he told some great bawdy jokes.

 

[rikzilla]

Or else ... we have all the military options that the US has, including nukes.

---

But apart from that, think about what you just said, you ******* lump of ****.

When your country came under attack on 9/11, we didn't stand about saying "so what are you going to do about it?" We pledged ourselves as your allies. Tony Blair stood on the steps of 10 Downing Street and said that we stood "shoulder to shoulder" with you --- and I wept.

And now, you ******* ****, you see that a member of the "axis of evil" has taken military action against British servicemen, we issue an ultimatum, and your response, as an American, is "or else what"?

You stupid whining ungrateful son of a bitch --- or else you and your country can **** off and die, do I make myself clear?

If you want to have allies, you should be allied to them. We are still fighting "shoulder to shoulder" with you in Afghanistan and Iraq; we have given our money and the blood of our children for your cause --- and you, it seems, have no gratitude, no decency, and no honor.

If I thought that every American was so personally stunted and morally crippled as you are, then on 9/11 I'd have gone out into the streets and danced the Palestinian Fandango.

Do I make myself clear?

Crystal.

Dude, look don't start taking Palestinian fandango lessons just yet. We USians are well pleased and appreciative of your friendship with us. I think what Beeps was getting at is that this is clearly a small-scale incident, ie not 9/11esque in the least. No one is dead, no one is likely to end up dead. Therefore the issuance of ultimatums at this early juncture is...well...premature.

Remember your history. King Stephen was fond of issuing ultimatums that he never meant to carry out. Having taken William Marshall's 6 year old son hostage to enforce the rules of a truce during the siege of Pembroke castle, King Stephen told Marshall to cease resupplying his castle in violation of the truce or he would hang the boy. Since Marshall was both callous and sly he told the King to go ahead and hang the child:

""I still have the hammer and the anvil with which to forge still more and better sons!"

Of course Stephen couldn't bring himself to do it because...well...he was a good man, but his misuse of the ultimatum made him a bad king.

I think what Beeps is asking makes sense.

this incident is not anywhere near the scale of 9/11...it's more accurately likened to the US/China spy plane incident. If you recall we had to negotiate our way out of that one...just like you lot will have to do with old Abnerjihad.

Yeah, it sucks and we feel for you....but the fact is no one is in any danger here...as long as things don't spiral out of control. Issuing empty ultimatums is a good way to screw this up though.

-z

 

[BPSCG]

I post something like this every three months or so, when the right-wing loonies forget that we're your allies, and start banging on about how we're all cowards and want to appease terrorists and are just going to lie down while our 2% Muslim population are going to impose shari'a law 'cos we're all "liberals" and for some magic reason will therefore welcome Islamofascism.

I hear this endless hateful whining again and again from the right-wing US whackjobs.

We've spent billions to support America, and our soldiers keep on dying because we're fighting on your side, and now ...

And now people like BPSGC won't support the UK against Iran, when we are clearly in the right.

As I said, people like this display:

No gratitude.

No decency.

No honor.

I recall that you are an ex-serviceman, so I suppose that you understand what I'm talking about. When you fought alongside the British, you wouldn't have left a British serviceman to be captured 'cos "or else what". You yourself would have been the "or else". That is what I mean by "honor".

And this is what ****s like BPSGC will never understand.

Okay, I was going to let your first post go.

Number 1: Despite your use of the term, it is not an ultimatum unless there's a threat behind it, expressed or implied. My "or else what?" was asking just that - where's the ultimatum?

Number 2: If it came down to a clash of arms between the UK and Iran, I would hope and expect my government would do everything in its power to support the UK, because the UK has been a good friend, in good times and bad.

Number 3: Grow up.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Dr. A.

While I agree with an second your sentiments, BPSCG has a point. WTF are we going to do? Nuke Tehran? And then what......

The truth is that this government has squandered the billions that should have been used to maintain our capability of independent global force projection. There isnt anything we could do. By the governments own admission, they have cut our armed forces to the degree that independent military action is simply no longer viable- this in order to play sidekick to the global playground bully.

While the posts of some Americans here warms the cockles of my heart, the truth is we are playing a game of naughty wheelbarrow with a US administration that views us very much as the mummy and themselves very much as the dadddy. GWB will not spend a single dollar or shed a drop of American blood to save the life of any given number of UK servicemen or women.

"Or else, what?" Well, if the US wont support us then "or else" we go and sulk in the corner for a while.

Sad but true.

 

[Dr Adequate]

Or else what?

My brothers in arms, end of story.

Two Americas.

I pledge myself to the second.

 

[rikzilla]

Jon,

You guys don't have a thing to worry about. You know we'd back you guys to the hilt... The point is that despite what we think of Iran...they are a legitimate government. We can work with them to resolve this thing. It's not like AQ took your guys you know...if that was the case it'd be grim indeed.

Honestly, unless old Abnerjihad has already cooked up his bomb he's not about to invite an attack that could derail his nuke ambitions. He has bigger fish to fry than 15 Brits you know.

-z

 

[Darth Rotor]

Two Americas.

I pledge myself to the second.

While I think your reaction to Beeps was excessive (gee, I've never gone off like that, have I? ) I appreciate the sentiment in your pledge.

The "special relationship" is a long way from being interrupted.

DR

 

[Dr Adequate]

Okay, I was going to let your first post go.

Number 1: Despite your use of the term, it is not an ultimatum unless there's a threat behind it, expressed or implied. My "or else what?" was asking just that - where's the ultimatum?

Number 2: If it came down to a clash of arms between the UK and Iran, I would hope and expect my government would do everything in its power to support the UK, because the UK has been a good friend, in good times and bad.

Number 3: Grow up.

You backpedal well. Does the US have an Olympic backpedaling team? You'd be good. Suddenly "or else what?" implies that we'd have the full support of the USA. Splendid. You could have said that you'd support us all the way --- you could have used, for example, the phrase "shoulder to shoulder" --- instead of posting "or else what?"

So now you have to backpedal like it's going out of fashion.

I'm glad I convinced you that you were wrong, but your attempt to pretend that you agreed with me all along is just pathetic.

 

[Dr Adequate]

You guys don't have a thing to worry about. You know we'd back you guys to the hilt...

I hope that this is true.

But when I read BPSGC writing what he wrote, then I don't believe that every American will "back us to the hilt".

I get the impression, correct me if I'm wrong, that if British servicemen are kidnapped by Iranians, then one or two of you, such as BPSGC, might say "or else what?" i.e. the same thing that fanatical shi'ite muslims might say.

Because this is what the ******* **** did in fact say.