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Interesting argument against GLBT adoption

Safe-Keeper

My avatar is not a Drumpf hat
Safe-Keeper
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OK, so there's now a significant chance that Norway will allow gay marriage and adoption as well as artificial insemination in the near future, and of course the conservatives are making one last stand, throwing every last useless argument they have at the enlightened crowd. Gay is unnatural, it's against God, the kids will get bullied on the playground, it's causing straight divorce, it's part of a trend from natural to artificial, it breaks tradition... you get the idea. Even if it's all been said a hundred times before (nah, let me correct that, especially if it's been said and debunked a hundred times before:covereyes), the arguments remain, all of them useless.

Except the occasional one or two that makes one think. Such as the argument that goes as follows:
  1. There are countries in the world that aren't as advanced as we are when it comes to gay rights.
  2. We adopt children from those countries.
  3. If we allow gay marriage and adoption, some of the kids we adopt from these countries will go to same-sex couples.
  4. The countries we adopt from will strongly dislike this, and as such "boycott" Norway, no longer letting us adopt their orphans.
  5. Ergo, gay adoption will lead to significant numbers of kids not getting homes:(.
This argument sounds fairly decent on the surface, at least compared to the usual drivel we hear, but on balance I don't buy it and so I want to discuss it here. What's the experience of other countries that allow gay adoption, such as (to the best of my knowledge) Canada.
 
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Here's another thought that just hit me:

- If there is a increase in demand, some market will come to fill that gap in supply.
- If there is a decrease in supply, again, some market will fill it (if demand demands it).
- If Norway causes a decrease in supply, some other country will fill the gap.

And if there is not a legal and ethical supply increase, might there be an illegal or unethical supply, such as kidnapping, or the creation of baby mills?

I've no idea how reasonable this is to happen: but it something the OP made me wonder about.
 
Well, I suppose it depends on whether the children are transported in bulk from those countries to be divvied up between the Norwegian citizens willy-nilly, or whether each case is dealt with individually. Given that Madonna has had to apply to a court in Malawi for her latest adoption, presumably the latter is the case, and the adoption agencies in the other countries will simply reject any same-sex applications out of hand and consider any others as they do now.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
OK, so there's now a significant chance that Norway will allow gay marriage and adoption as well as artificial insemination in the near future, and of course the conservatives are making one last stand, throwing every last useless argument they have at the enlightened crowd.
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You're telling me? I'm a politician, and I get 2-3 mails every day from religious freaks screaming about teh geys.

I don't think it's fair labeling this as a 'conservative' thing, though. The Conservative Party (Høyre) is voting for gay marriage.

Rather, it's a religious freaks thing.
 
Well, I don't know about other countries, but this would be a non-issue for China. Not that they wouldn't have problems with adoption by gay parents...they absolutely would disagree with it. However, in order to adopt a Chinese child, you have to come to China, and be approved by the gov't.

A gay couple would never be approved; so it would never be an issue. It would have no impact whatsoever on how many straight parents would be allowed to adopt Chinese kids.
 
Wolfman said:
Well, I don't know about other countries, but this would be a non-issue for China. Not that they wouldn't have problems with adoption by gay parents...they absolutely would disagree with it. However, in order to adopt a Chinese child, you have to come to China, and be approved by the gov't.

A gay couple would never be approved; so it would never be an issue. It would have no impact whatsoever on how many straight parents would be allowed to adopt Chinese kids.
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What about an individual who was part of a gay couple though? As norway does not have homosexual marriage, they might be able to get around the whole issue of the couple adopting by having an individual adopt.

I know individuals can adopt from china.
 
Yes aggle- and that's just because people are discussing same-sex marriages; imagine the divorce rate in the USA if same-sex marriage became legal countrywide, I bet you'd find that they'd be people divorcing in their dozens!
 
The problem is the argument is simply based on someone else's prejudice. Continuing prejudice because some people is prejudice reinforces that prejudice. I mean consider the following lines of logic.

There are locations in the United States that are not as advanced as we are with regards to Civil Rights.
Some people might hurt people of different races if they are in the same schools as them in those locations.
If we allow people of different races in those schools, some of them may get hurt.
Violence is bad.
Therefore it is safest to keep schools segregated.

Etc.

Giving in to other people's prejudice because they're prejudiced legitimizes it.
 
GreyIce makes a legitimate point. How is this different from the "My customers will stop coming if I allow black people in my restaurant"?
 
Well, I suppose it depends on whether the children are transported in bulk from those countries to be divvied up between the Norwegian citizens willy-nilly, or whether each case is dealt with individually.
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The other suggestions in the thread notwithstanding, I found this one to be the best so far.

My cousin was adopted from the PRC, following a lengthy (year-long) process of applying, waiting, and then finally traveling to China to get the girl. Sure, a couple could conceivably receive a sum of money from a gay couple to apply, get the child, and then hand it over, but to be realistic, this is a danger regardlessly of whether or not gay adoption is legal in Norway, as the fact remains in another country. Even if gay adoption in Norway is not legal, it's still illegal on, say, Iceland - who's to say me and my theoretical girlfriend won't be paid off by a same-sex Reykjavik couple who badly wants a child?

Am I speaking out of my butt here, or do I make some sense?

How is this different from the "My customers will stop coming if I allow black people in my restaurant"?
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Having thought up an analogy or two on gay marriage myself, I'm embarrassed to say that I never thought of that. Very good point.
 
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Yup. Turtle, you missed the opening line of my OP:
OK, so there's now a significant chance that Norway will allow gay marriage and adoption as well as artificial insemination in the near future
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;)

That may be true now, but it won't be true after june 11th :)
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:)
 
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I wonder if that will be recognised outside Norway?

For that matter, does the UK recognise Muslim polygamous marriage, or is the first wife seen as the sole legal wife by the law? Who inherits if a Muslim husband dies in the UK?

Well, I expect the lawyers inherit a large slice...
 
Just keep the money flowing to the corrupt kleptocrats in these countries, and the kids'll keep flowing out.

Remember, that's what it's all about from their point of view.
 
Denver said:
Here's another thought that just hit me:

- If there is a increase in demand, some market will come to fill that gap in supply.
- If there is a decrease in supply, again, some market will fill it (if demand demands it).
- If Norway causes a decrease in supply, some other country will fill the gap.
Click to expand...
Ah, capitalism. Is there any problem it can't solve? :)
 
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