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"In God We Trust" and worm food

Naive1000

Critical Thinker
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Congressional hate for atheism:
Rep. Franks (R-AZ) claimed “And I would submit to you…if man is God, then an atheist state is as brutal as the thesis that it rests upon and there is no longer any reason for us to gather here in this place. We should just let anarchy prevail because, after all, we are just worm food.”
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Isn't it ironic that they claim that atheism is barbaric when they spew this kind of hateful rhetoric, especially when it's kept permanently in the congressional records. Quote, article, and video. I've read in other threads here that atheists have no respect for the religious, but isn't this just self-defense against the onslaught of hate spewed at atheists for no other reason than our own beliefs? Shouldn't someone stand up and call out this kind of hate speech? And yes I do feel it is hate speech: his implication is that atheists are immoral, barbaric, and without reason.
 
I didn't read the article or watch the video, but just from your snippet here it sounds like the "if man is all there is with no god above then we would all be immoral nihilists and nothing matters because the dream was a lie and we should just realize we're nothing but destined for the grave so let lawlessness ensue and grab your gun" thing.

In other words, the believer's pout over Santa not being real so we shouldn't give gifts to each other, instead we should kill each other because there is no reason for the season.

They continually miss the point of their own ******* message and so to compensate they have to accuse others who already know Santa isn't real of being as selfish, hateful, and egocentric at their core as they are.
 
If you don’t believe in Odin, you believe in nothing, unless…
If you don’t believe in Zeus, you believe in nothing, unless…
If you don’t believe in Yahweh, you believe in nothing, unless…
If you don’t believe in Horus, you believe in nothing, unless…
If you don’t believe in Yuanshi Tianzun, you believe in nothing, unless…
If you don’t believe in Allah, you believe in nothing, unless…
If you don’t believe in Shiva, you believe in nothing, unless…

If you don’t believe in Humans, you believe in nothing.
 
Naive1000 said:
Congressional hate for atheism:

Isn't it ironic that they claim that atheism is barbaric when they spew this kind of hateful rhetoric, especially when it's kept permanently in the congressional records. Quote, article, and video. I've read in other threads here that atheists have no respect for the religious, but isn't this just self-defense against the onslaught of hate spewed at atheists for no other reason than our own beliefs? Shouldn't someone stand up and call out this kind of hate speech? And yes I do feel it is hate speech: his implication is that atheists are immoral, barbaric, and without reason.
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Sadly, along with freedom of relgion, we have freedom of speech in America. Even hate speech from morons like Rep. Frank.

Just checked his house webpage. Found this on his bio under awards.
""The True Blue Award" from Family Research Council, for his Defense of Family, Faith, and Freedom. The True Blue Award is presented by the Family Research Council to Members of Congress who demonstrate extraordinary integrity and character in their defense of the family and the sanctity of human life through their votes. Recipients of the True Blue Award have achieved perfect voting records on issues of importance to the American family."

Tells us everything we need to know.
 
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Representative Franks is a fool.

And if you voted for him, so are you.
 
It's part and parcel of Christian thinking that Man is bad. Flawed, nasty....Only through Jeebus can we be "saved".
That we could figure out how to be decent all by ourselves never enters their mind.
 
devnull said:
whoever claimed man is god?

there are no gods. I think he missed the point.
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What I find interesting is that the idea of "if there are no gods, then man is god and screw this" actually tells you a person's definition of god in a lot of ways by looking at how they live their lives and view their own species.

I know that's pointing out the obvious ... but I think it's "more obvious" than we often give it credit.
 
I think the history of "trusting in God" to guide the actions of man has been checkered, to say the least.
 
Trent Wray said:
I didn't read the article or watch the video, but just from your snippet here it sounds like the "if man is all there is with no god above then we would all be immoral nihilists and nothing matters because the dream was a lie and we should just realize we're nothing but destined for the grave so let lawlessness ensue and grab your gun" thing.

In other words, the believer's pout over Santa not being real so we shouldn't give gifts to each other, instead we should kill each other because there is no reason for the season.

They continually miss the point of their own ******* message and so to compensate they have to accuse others who already know Santa isn't real of being as selfish, hateful, and egocentric at their core as they are.
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I wonder if anyone's ever done a study of criminality in the religious vs. criminality in the non-religious? Might be interesting to have some cold, hard facts about whether atheists are more likely to commit crimes or not.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I wonder if anyone's ever done a study of criminality in the religious vs. criminality in the non-religious? Might be interesting to have some cold, hard facts about whether atheists are more likely to commit crimes or not.
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I always get a kick out of the "There is no morality without my god" argument. I tend to ask the person if they really want to be out doing terrible things to children, but their fear of hell is the only thing holding them back from being a horrible criminal. They tend to stammer a "Well, no, but you umm.."

Odd that priests don't seem to feel much of a disincentive in hurting children, as they allegedly believe in both Yahweh and hell.
 
JudeBrando said:
Name one that isn't.
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Flawed or nasty?

Everyone is flawed Jude, but not everyone is nasty, or violent, or psychopathic, or sociopathic. We almost all of us have empathy for our fellow creatures and some of us too much for our own good. We all make mistakes and some of us big whoppers, but we keep trying most of us. We apologize and hope for forgiveness from our loved ones and peers . . .

What we aren't are sinners, or hopeless sinners, born wicked and doomed. Keep that if you want it. I don't. Most here don't and won't. We don't deserve it and refuse to accept it from those who claim to know better, to know the name of what they call god.

Please keep it.
 
I don't understand your angst.

By any commonly understood definition of sinner, I have no trouble admitting or confessing as much. Guilty as charged, your honor.

Why does it so trouble you to bring it up to/against me?
 
JudeBrando said:
I don't understand your angst.

By any commonly understood definition of sinner, I have no trouble admitting or confessing as much. Guilty as charged, your honor.

Why does it so trouble you to bring it up to/against me?
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There is no angst, just as there is no such thing as sin, thus no such thing as a sinner. Why does it trouble you to understand that? I guess you like the idea of sin, perhaps revel in it a bit, this nastiness you talk of, and like to accuse others of such, rather than recognize that people for the most part try to do the best they can.
 
You are one of several Pavlov's dogs here who simply must always bite me. For what it's worth, the feeling is not mutual.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I wonder if anyone's ever done a study of criminality in the religious vs. criminality in the non-religious? Might be interesting to have some cold, hard facts about whether atheists are more likely to commit crimes or not.
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There are a few numbers out there that suggest this in general. Atheists appear to be very underrepresented in prison populations, but there are some obvious factors towards that rather than direct cause and effect of religiosity.

Countries ranked by religiosity and crime rates or prison population also show a correlation between more atheism and less crime, but again, the confounding factors of different legal systems and other influences make this hard to assign causal weight to.

Changes over time in both religiosity and violent crime tell the same story as the other studies. Over time on average, atheism is increasing and violent crime is decreasing. Once again though, there are so many factors involved that assuming causality would be silly.

To add to those, a social study of criminal behavior and religion would be nice, but it would be similarly inconclusive. Both factors are not great for self reporting, and both have strong relationships with external factors.

For instance, people who will admit to having committed crimes are more likely to have been in prison. The gang culture of many prisons, the stress of the situation, and the politics of parole make "religious conversion" quite appealing. There is also a strong negative correlation between violent crime and the wealth of the community you come from. Trust fund kids don't often knock over gas stations. Religiosity is very high in poorer communities.

All of this means that while real causal effects would be incredibly hard to measure, all available evidence points to the opposite of what the congressman in the OP seems to believe.
 
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