I'm thinking about buying a 9800pro graphics card. Advice please.

Interesting Ian

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I'm thinking about buying a 9800pro graphics card. But my motherboard only supports 4X AGP. Is that a problem?

I currently have a ti4200 graphics card (64mb version). I have an XP1800 and 768mb of RAM. So will I have any noticeable difference if I went up to an 9800 pro??

Also do these 9800s just run off the AGP slot without connecting to the power supply? Just had a look at my power supply and there's no slots on it. But I read that this certain 9800 pro, which has a particularly huge fan, needs to be connected to the power supply. But I'm thinking that maybe that's because it has a huge fan which needs to be powered, and therefore normal 9800pro's don't? And btw, my power supply is only 350 watts (or at least it says 350 watts output max). Is that enough?

I'm also confused because they are different types of 9800 pro. For example I've heard that there is this cheap version. I don't wish to buy one of them, so how can I tell them apart?

Lastly take a look at this webpage. There's a 9800 pro ( this model) which is claimed to be new, but which is an "Unused Exhibit" costing only £75. Amazon are selling it for £129, so is this "Unused Exhibit" costing only £75 a bargain? Or is it effectively 2nd hand?

If it's bad value where else would you recommend (on the Internet) where I should buy a 9800 pro?

Sorry about all the questions. I know little about computer stuff.

Thanks.
 
Some basic clarifications and a few answers (I'm not an expert either):

Graphics cards themselves are made by many different companies. The "9800 pro" bit only refers to the chipset, which in this case is made by Radeon.

The quality of the card (if it's likely to break, what kind of fan it’s got) depends a lot on which company made the card, not the chipset, but the performance will be approximately the same. Cheaper cards are likely to be from less well-known manufacturers. Possibly the safest company for you would be ATI, as they make the Radeon chips.

I would also suggest looking on eBay, as even if you don’t like buying from there, it gives a good idea of what prices you should expect.

The 9800 pro comes in two versions, the 128MB and the 256MB.

I have never heard of a card needing an extra power cable. It may be that the one you read about was being customised or overclocked, so needed a separate fan.
 
A) Many modern video cards do require a separate power cable; it's quite common.

B) I have an ATI 9800 Pro with 256mb RAM.
B1) It works great for playing games in Windows.
B2) ATI's Linux support is CRAP.
B2b) REALLY crap.
B2c) REALLY, REALLY crap(*).

C) If you want to buy a used ATI 9800 Pro with 256 MB RAM, I know a guy who doesn't like his anymore.

D) If you are investing in a new video card, PCIe is the new hotness. The card my uh "friend" has, however, is AGP.

E) NONE (that's right: NONE, I counted) of the ATI cards currently support Pixel Shader 3.0, which is required for the hot new games to look their best. The nVidia 6xxx series, however, does support it.

(* Try x.org compositing if you're an ATI fan. You'll quickly change your tune.)
 
scribble said:
A) Many modern video cards do require a separate power cable; it's quite common.
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ok so the cable goes from the card to where? There 's nothing on the power supply itself to plug it into. I don't know about the motherboard. Or does it go somewhere else?

And does the fact that my mobo doesn't support 8X AGP matter a great deal?

My PC's over 3 years old but I don't want to get a new one yet. I'll leave that probably until 2007.
 
Interesting Ian said:
ok so the cable goes from the card to where? There 's nothing on the power supply itself to plug it into. I don't know about the motherboard. Or does it go somewhere else?
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It goes into one of the power supply outlets. You have one plugged into your hard disk and any other drives in your machine (the connector to the motherboard is different and more complex).

Every video card I have ever purchased that requires a seperate power connector comes with a "splitter" you can put on one of your existing connections to make it two. If your card turns out to be an exception to this rule, you can purchase them at any PC store for a dollar or two.

I would personally suggest that your 350watt power supply is probably adequate... but you might want to consider upgrading; a new one is only $40ish, and if your PC is three years old, your power supply is jut about due to fail anyhow.

And does the fact that my mobo doesn't support 8X AGP matter a great deal?
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No, it's a bad deal. But it won't stop the card from working, it'll only go half-fast. You could probably even slot one into a 1x AGP port... it'd just be significantly slower than it needs to be.

My PC's over 3 years old but I don't want to get a new one yet. I'll leave that probably until 2007.
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What do you plan to do with this video card? Your proposed rig won't play the newest generation of games at all well... You have enough RAM, but it's probably slow RAM, your processor is definitely too slow, and you've only got 4xAGP, so I'm guessing your FSB is probably slow as well. Plus, as I mentioned before, ATI products son't even fully support THIS generation of games.

If you aren't looking to play modern games, the 9800 is a waste of money. An older, cheaper video card will play older games with no problems and be less of an investment. If you aren't looking to play games at all, the 9800 pro isn't really suited for high-end design work, and it's a total waste for desktop based apps.

-Chris
 
I have a Hercules 9800 Pro, with the copper sinks and the trippy blue fan (Damm you New Egg with your bundle deals), have never had a problem, I even keep it a bit overclocked for Far Cry and other DX games with the Rad clock utility.


If you are going to upgrade with in the year, buy something PCI Express, if you aren't it is a good card and much more worth the money now as they were a year ago.

Only complaint is the 4 pin molex power is a bitch to pull out when you are moving it.
 
I just bought a 6600 Pro, it works fine, and, according to scribble, I did better than if I had bought ATI. Pixel shading, who could live without it. Now all I have to do is get a game that uses it, and I can notice it.

My kids 'bought' me Battlefield 2 for my birthday. (thanks kids). Sure, the graphics are better, but they are still obviously computer graphics.

Unique's Law. There is a limit to which you should take computer graphics. They always look like computer generated images in the end, so you may as well just make them half decent and leave it at that.

I can't see that I have gained anything by having the new game. The old one was perfectly good, I just want mods that are intersting.
 
CFLarsen said:
Your graphics card is part of materialism.
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Don't be silly. Everyone knows his graphics card only works if he *believes* in it.

:rolleyes:

Heck, nVidia has entire buildings of engineers who's only job is to believe in their products so they'll work. That's probably why ATI's Linux drivers suck so badly... no one believes in them.
 
scribble said:
Don't be silly. Everyone knows his graphics card only works if he *believes* in it.

:rolleyes:

Heck, nVidia has entire buildings of engineers who's only job is to believe in their products so they'll work. That's probably why ATI's Linux drivers suck so badly... no one believes in them.
Click to expand...

Ian has been watching too much Monty Python:

Voice Over: But even more modern building techniques are being used on an expanding new town site near Peterborough; here the Amazing Mystico and Janet can put up a block of flats by hypnosis in under a minute.

The whole skit
Click to expand...
 
By the way, Ian- since you NEVER learn anything at this board- why do you keep asking these questions?

Ye gods- I've figured it out!

Ian's an AI.

The whole materialist / dualism thing is a prolonged Turing Test!

Certainly had me fooled...

Back on topic, someone who knows about graphics cards told me today that PCI express is emphatically the way to go.(I'm not a fancy graphics user myself). If I understood him right Ian, you would probably be better in the long run upgrading your motherboard rather than putting a pricey 8x AGP card in your existing machine.
 
PCI-X cards require not only a new board, but also a new CPU and possibly new RAM as well. And seeing as IA (Interesting Ian=IA=AI - Soapy Sam may be on to something here) relies on a skeptics forum for computer advice, I would strongly recommend he pay someone to do the upgrade for him. The cost of all this is fast approaching the price of a new system from a bargain-basement mail-order firm, which would have a comparable card in, or close enough.

I say wait until you can afford a completely new system. If you want to play PC games, pick up an XBox cheap and pretend.
 
Soapy Sam said:
Back on topic, someone who knows about graphics cards told me today that PCI express is emphatically the way to go.(I'm not a fancy graphics user myself). If I understood him right Ian, you would probably be better in the long run upgrading your motherboard rather than putting a pricey 8x AGP card in your existing machine. [/B]
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I've heard that PCI express cards do not currently offer any significant advantage.

Hmmm . . I was going to buy the Hightech IceQ 9800 pro from ebuyer for £81.66. I've been looking at reviews for the past couple of days and seems an excellent choice. I was looking at the product just last night, but just now when I tried to give you the link it says discontinued or out of stock! Damn! I can't find it anywhere else either.

Anyway, I don't think that is expensive and it's a damn sight cheaper than buying a new PC. Why buy a new PC now when a graphics card like that will tide me over for the next 2 years?? In 2 years time PCs will be better and cheaper. I see no reason to follow your suggestion and waste my money. This graphics card (should I be able to find it now) will play games at a reasonable details. It will do me for now.
 
Underemployed said:
PCI-X cards require not only a new board, but also a new CPU and possibly new RAM as well. And seeing as IA (Interesting Ian=IA=AI - Soapy Sam may be on to something here) relies on a skeptics forum for computer advice, I would strongly recommend he pay someone to do the upgrade for him. The cost of all this is fast approaching the price of a new system from a bargain-basement mail-order firm, which would have a comparable card in, or close enough.

I say wait until you can afford a completely new system. If you want to play PC games, pick up an XBox cheap and pretend.
Click to expand...

Why the hell should I pay someone to insert a graphics card??? :eek: I do have the ability to press a graphics card into a slot you know :rolleyes: I haven't connected a graphics card to the power supply before, but I've looked in my case and I reckon it probably means the same sort of connection as I use to connect CD drives etc (this 4 pin thing). I've got a spare one dangling there, so it's absolutely no problem whatsoever. Anyway, I'll just ask a friend to do it if I can't.

And the cost of all this scarcely is approaching the cost of a new PC! That would cost me about £500. A new graphics card will cost me £82* and will be perfectly adequate to tide me over for the next 2 years.

I have absolutely no idea why you think I should not ask a skeptics forum. As I've said time after time after time, peoples' stupidity over the existence of anomalous phenomena on here does not extend into any other areas so far as I am able to ascertain. Indeed quite the converse. I've always found peoples knowledge and intelligence in other areas to be impressive.

* I have hit a snag here though. As I said that particular product no longer is available. If I cannot find a proper 9800 pro for less than £100, I'll agree with people that it's not worth the expence. And BTW no-one has informed me as to how I'll be able to tell a proper 9800 pro from the cheaper version. It's not the memory of the card as someone suggested (128mb or 256mb). But I've just done a search on usenet. Someone says:

Some months ago the cost of the Sapphire 9800 Pro 128MB came down. Many
people snapped them up, and only when they received their cards did they
notice the box had a sticker on saying '128-bit'. Sapphire received a lot
of complaints from customers who thought they were getting a 'proper'
256-bit card. Sapphire withdrew the product, renaming it the '9800
Atlantis', and promised to replace all 128-bit cards with the 256-bit
version.
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Hmmm . .so I just have to make sure it says 256 bit even though 128mb ram?
 
I am not impugning your ability to insert a graphics card, only to do a complete motherboard-CPU-RAM-graphics card upgrade successfully, which is what you would be best off doing if you were getting a PCI Express card. If you're sticking with the AGP 9800 Pro you should be fine.

The way to tell the different 9800s apart is the quoted memory and GPU speeds. 'Real' Pros are usually labelled 380Mhz core (the graphics main chip) and 340Mhz RAM (although this is often spuriously doubled to 680 to represent DDR). 'Standard' 9800 cards are anything lower than this. Some retail cards are rated slightly higher but they are few and far between and only worth buying if you want marginally higher results from benchmark programs.

Edited to add: The 256-bit memory interface is also something to watch out for as previously stated. This is regardless of how much physical RAM it has and applies to 128MB and 256MB versions.

For dedicated PC advice, I recommend the forums at [H]ardOCP
 
Underemployed said:
I am not impugning your ability to insert a graphics card, only to do a complete motherboard-CPU-RAM-graphics card upgrade successfully, which is what you would be best off doing if you were getting a PCI Express card. If you're sticking with the AGP 9800 Pro you should be fine.

The way to tell the different 9800s apart is the quoted memory and GPU speeds. 'Real' Pros are usually labelled 380Mhz core (the graphics main chip) and 340Mhz RAM (although this is often spuriously doubled to 680 to represent DDR). 'Standard' 9800 cards are anything lower than this. Some retail cards are rated slightly higher but they are few and far between and only worth buying if you want marginally higher results from benchmark programs.

Edited to add: The 256-bit memory interface is also something to watch out for as previously stated. This is regardless of how much physical RAM it has and applies to 128MB and 256MB versions.

For dedicated PC advice, I recommend the forums at [H]ardOCP
Click to expand...

Yes I'm not sure about my ability to actually completely assemble a computer. Yes I was wondering where else I could ask. I think asking people on here is absolutely fine (being skeptics is irrelevant!), but a dedicated forum to computer hardware would be more appropriate :) Thanks.
 
Would it be better for me to buy an AGP version of the GeForce 6600GT, or wouldn't my system run it?

I have an asus A7V333 motherboard, but it only does 4X AGP. Does it require more power to run than the 9800 pro? I could always get a new psu I suppose, but is this card compatible with my motherboard. I mean I bought it 3.5 years ago so quite old.

Can't ask on that other board yet because they still haven't approved me :mad:
 
The card should run fine on the A7V333 (mine has been running a 9800Pro for 2yrs with no problems - well, no power-related ones....). NVidia recommend a 300W PSU so if yours is below this you should change.
 
Underemployed said:
The card should run fine on the A7V333 (mine has been running a 9800Pro for 2yrs with no problems - well, no power-related ones....). NVidia recommend a 300W PSU so if yours is below this you should change.
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What would the 6600GT be like compared to the 9800 pro for running something like "far cry"?
 
Ever-so-slightly better. Probably imperceptibly so. You would be able to turn on the fancy shader effects and maybe the lighting would look better, but this would probably have a noticeable effect on your framerate.
 
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