Illegal Israeli Settlements Rapidly Growing.

[a_unique_person]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/778767.html

A secret, two year investigation by the defense establishment shows that there has been rampant illegal construction in dozens of settlements and in many cases involving privately owned Palestinian properties.

The information in the study was presented to two defense ministers, Amir Peretz and his predecessor Shaul Mofaz, but was not released in public and a number of people participating in the investigations were asked to sign non-disclosure agreements.

According to security sources familiar with the study, the material is "political and diplomatic dynamite."

I often hear it is just a matter of keeping the law, if Palestinians just did that, all would be ok, and they are to be condemned for not doing so.

It appear Isreal is no better at keeping the law.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

It appear Isreal is no better at keeping the law.

When the government of Israel starts to fund and train suicide Israeli bombers to enter Palestinian restaurants and blow themselves up you may have a point of comparison however to try and compare the legality of the two sides at the moment will result highlight that the elected representatives of the Palestinians have no respect for any law, not even their own.

 

[steverino]

When the government of Israel starts to fund and train suicide Israeli bombers to enter Palestinian restaurants and blow themselves up you may have a point of comparison however to try and compare the legality of the two sides at the moment will result highlight that the elected representatives of the Palestinians have no respect for any law, not even their own.

Thank you for this Darat. It is quite possible that Israel's West Bank buildings can be dismantled and the land "restored." The kids blown up by suicide bombers at a Tel Aviv pizzeria, well, the survivors cannot so easliy have their limbs restored. Of course, those who died are gone forever. Those West Bank homes are just carpentry and can rise and fall without horrid consequence.

 

[jmontecillo01]

Death is death, suffering is suffering. It does not matter what method you use, the result is the same. When it comes to human suffering, no man can claim to be in a moral high horse if the result of their action is the same.

 

[pipelineaudio]

Darat are you feeling ok? Good point

 

[a_unique_person]

When the government of Israel starts to fund and train suicide Israeli bombers to enter Palestinian restaurants and blow themselves up you may have a point of comparison however to try and compare the legality of the two sides at the moment will result highlight that the elected representatives of the Palestinians have no respect for any law, not even their own.

The fight from the start, with the Israeli Terrorism and War of Independence, has been for land.

 

[Skeptic]

Death is death, suffering is suffering. It does not matter what method you use, the result is the same. When it comes to human suffering, no man can claim to be in a moral high horse if the result of their action is the same.

Yes, but the result of a settler building a house is not the same as that of a Palestinian suicide bomber blowing one up.

 

[Skeptic]

The fight from the start, with the Israeli Terrorism and War of Independence, had been for land.

Yes it was: the Arab goal in that war--and ever since--being the pushing of the jews into the sea of making sure all of the land is purely Arab and (preferably) Muslim (as seen by the treatment of Palestinian Christians by their Muslim "brothers"). To say both sides are fighting for land and therefore both are morally equal is like saying that when someone fights a would-be murderer, both are trying to kill the other and therefore both are morally equal.

The Palestinian goal--as seen everywhere from the PLO covenant on down--is genocide or, at least, expulsion of the jews. The israeli goal is survival. No comparison.

 

[jmontecillo01]

Yes, but the result of a settler building a house is not the same as that of a Palestinian suicide bomber blowing one up.

How about the civilians that perished because of Isralie missiles.

You would find this funny. You would probably know that I suffer from schiz. I suffer from auditory/visual hallucination. The fact is that the voice I "heard" thought me a lot. One of which is how to question things.

I grew up in a rural place in Asia. I did not know anything about the Isralie/Palestinian problem until Israel attacked Betlehem and cornered some civilians in the Church of Nativity.

The voice I heard said "Even if the lot adjuscent to your home is empty, you still have no right to claim it".

Israel was born 1948. The land was given to them by the British and it has fixed boundaries. If the British gave them Tasmania, then that would be their home. They will have no right to build settlements in NSW.

To take the argument that they were there 2000 years ago, then Americans might as well surrender all thier lands to the original occupants which are the Native Americans.

 

[Q-Source]

The Palestinian goal--as seen everywhere from the PLO covenant on down--is genocide or, at least, expulsion of the jews. The israeli goal is survival. No comparison.

I think they are just defending their land. Think about it. Someone comes and takes your home. What is it your reaction? Are you going to sit outside in the backyard imploring them to leave?

 

[Skeptic]

Israel was born 1948. The land was given to them by the British and it has fixed boundaries.

No, it didn't. Those boundaries--quite generous to the Arabs--were rejected by the Arabs repeatedly.

The idea that israel has no claim to land it won in wars of annihilation against it, apart from not being followed by any other nation in the world, means in practice that the Arabs can continue to fight and have no reason to make peace: if they win, they kill all the jews; if they lose, they lose nothing because any territoriy israel gains is "occupied territory".

I think they are just defending their land. Think about it. Someone comes and takes your home.

Not a single inch of land was taken from the Arabs before 1948. ALL of it was bought, freely, by jews who came to Palestine and who bought it from Arabs willing to sell. They no more "took" somebody's home than the person who bought your house "took" your home.

Before 1948, in fact, the only land in Palestine taken by force was jewish land--the Arabs, rioting in 1929 and other times, massacred the jews from Gaza and Hebron and expelled the rest, despite the jews living there for centuries.

The only land taken later by force was the result of a war of annihilation against the jews started by the Arabs. It goes without saying, of course, that any land conquered in that war from the jews--the old city of Jerusalem, for instance--was instantly cleansed of all jewish occupants by force.

 

[Q-Source]

Skeptic,

Are you Jew? Do you believe in God?

 

[fuelair]

Yes it was: the Arab goal in that war--and ever since--being the pushing of the jews into the sea of making sure all of the land is purely Arab and (preferably) Muslim (as seen by the treatment of Palestinian Christians by their Muslim "brothers"). To say both sides are fighting for land and therefore both are morally equal is like saying that when someone fights a would-be murderer, both are trying to kill the other and therefore both are morally equal.

The Palestinian goal--as seen everywhere from the PLO covenant on down--is genocide or, at least, expulsion of the jews. The israeli goal is survival. No comparison.

So wish Israel would start salting land just before they give it back - sort of a ritual cleansing thing.

 

[firecoins]

Skeptic,

Are you Jew? Do you believe in God?

are you Muslim?

 

[jmontecillo01]

Skeptic,

I have a few Isralie friends and a few Palestinian friends. They all agree that the violence must end. There is no mention of "pushing the jews to the sea".

I used to frequent a site "Christian Scientist". There every time there is a Palestinian or somebody who question the methods of the Isralie govt, the members would be jumping up and down.


www dot washington-report dot org/backissues/0795/9507006.htm

I am posting the link but I am preety sure that like those in the forum I mentioned, you will just say that this is arab propaganda.

In the last war, we have a pretty balanced reporting here in Oz. There are reporters on both side so we know what both sides were doing.

 

[Q-Source]

are you Muslim?

No, I am atheist. I believe that these hatred between Muslims and Jews are rooted in their religious beliefs.

 

[Dave1001]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/778767.html



I often hear it is just a matter of keeping the law, if Palestinians just did that, all would be ok, and they are to be condemned for not doing so.

It appear Isreal is no better at keeping the law.

Do we really have to "pick sides" here? I'm interested in people promoting viable plans for the region, not pitting israeli jews against palestinian and other arab muslims.

 

[firecoins]

No, I am atheist. I believe that these hatred between Muslims and Jews are rooted in their religious beliefs.

in part, however Jews tend not to hate Muslims for being Muslim, just hate those who opose the existance of Israel. I know. I am from a Jewish backround. I am an atheist now.

 

[webfusion]

According to military sources, Israeli Defense Minister Peretz intends to demolish 86 illegal West Bank structures, 47 of which were built by settlers and 29 of which were built by Palestinians.

This thread OP talks about 'the law' --- and how it is applied/enforced.

Look, this is not really an Arab-Israeli Conflict thread. It is not a Muslim-Jew Conflict thread. It is a legal dispute.

If privately-owned lands are involved, certainly the Israeli courts are capable and reasonable, and the owners can bring suit. The 'deeds' to lands in this area of the world are highly questionable and not easily claimed to be in force today, due to many factors.
http://www.beki.org/landlaw.html

 

[Darth Rotor]

in part, however Jews tend not to hate Muslims for being Muslim, just hate those who opose the existance of Israel. I know. I am from a Jewish backround. I am an atheist now.

Does that make you a Jew or not? I am of the understanding that the descriptive is used two ways: one purely religious, one of blood and geneology. How do you apply that to yourself? What convention do you use?

DR