Idea for debunking using Internet video

[shanek]

So here's what I've been doing with a lot of my spare time recently:

I've been looking around YouTube at the debates going on there. There's a lot going on, and quite a few skeptics representing, but there's no shortage of woos, either. Check out this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=JamesYoung764

He's an astrologer making all sorts of crazy claims. Ordinarily on YouTube, someone might post a video response, and even include clips from that or other videos. There are whole discussions going on like that, and it's way cool.

But this guy has so many videos, I wanted to debunk a lot of things he was saying in them. Instead of making a bunch of little videos, which tend to be rather tedious as they're generally just people talking (yes, I'm including mine here), I decided to be a bit more professional (well, in an amateur sort of way).

So, here's the video I made: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4664318632893490991&hl=en

I had to upload it to Google instead of YouTube, because of YouTube's 10-minute limit. It's just a rough cut, but I think it's a good start, and a good platform for debunking other subjects as they arise. It's also in a good format for viewing on its own, maybe even in an educational context like a classroom.

So anyway, let me know what you think--all comments and criticisms are welcome. (I've already fixed a couple of audio problems and typos in the credits; I'll probably get that corrected version up tomorrow.)

I think the internet can be used like this to great advantage--without any of the problems of "stealing" an episode of ********! and putting it online. Actually, you can see my inspiration from P&T, Carl Sagan, and others.

I quite like it. Hope you do, too.

 

[SezMe]

I have three minor comments:

1) At one point, you dismiss the social pressure on people in a group to "go along to get along" I think this is a real effect and you should be careful how you make your argument.

2) I really do think you should create a 10-minute version so you can get on YouTube. You have to fight the beast where he lives.

3) The font size on the closing credit is way too small. I could barely read any of it.

 

[shanek]

I have three minor comments:

1) At one point, you dismiss the social pressure on people in a group to "go along to get along" I think this is a real effect and you should be careful how you make your argument.

Which point are you referring to?

2) I really do think you should create a 10-minute version so you can get on YouTube. You have to fight the beast where he lives.

I intend to; this was just for initial comments. I was thinking of making it in 3 segments, like a half-hour TV show would be.

Of course, that may be moot if I hear back from YouTube; I have a Director account, so I'm supposed to be able to upload more than 10 mins. Other Directors are.

3) The font size on the closing credit is way too small. I could barely read any of it.

I don't think it's the font size; I think it's the font. I'll probably change that.

 

[SezMe]

Shane, at one point you run a segment of the astrologer and he says something to the effect that people in a group setting would not speak up if their opinion ran against the grain of the group. You then come back and say if you had a broken ankle, you would know the doctor's report was not about you.

The nutter is right that there is a real effect of group pressure. And I thought your rejoinder was weak. I'd prefer you acknowledge that he is correct but find other experiments or data where that effect is not in play and STILLL the results are the same. IOW, come right back at him with his own argument, not from a weak analogy.

 

[Senex]

Ok, ask for my criticism and I will give it. My first criticism is a criticism I have for almost all videos I critique, not enough female nudity! Now that we have gotten passed the obvious I can focus on details. It's too long! How many people who aren't related to you are going to sit through a 27+ minute video with no female nudity? It's still playing on my PC, I hear it through my speakers but I've been looking at my e-mail, checking out sports pages and am now typing this -- and I am in the choir. I think you need to edit the video and have more humor and have a non-white wall backround when you are speaking - something fun; a third grader's model of the solar system or something. More humor.

 

[shanek]

Shane, at one point you run a segment of the astrologer and he says something to the effect that people in a group setting would not speak up if their opinion ran against the grain of the group. You then come back and say if you had a broken ankle, you would know the doctor's report was not about you.

Actually, what I said was that if they did think it wasn't for them and they wouldn't want to speak up, they wouldn't be surprised when it was revealed.

Besides, it's not about just speaking up; Randi asked how they rated it. They were given the opportunity to give it a 1 or a 2; they didn't. They all gave a 4 or a 5.

The nutter is right that there is a real effect of group pressure. And I thought your rejoinder was weak. I'd prefer you acknowledge that he is correct but find other experiments or data where that effect is not in play and STILLL the results are the same.

I thought I had with the Stossel video. There, everyone was enthusiastic about how well the report matched them and were even more surprised when it was revealed.

IOW, come right back at him with his own argument, not from a weak analogy.

The medical analogy was his, not mine. I just went with it.

 

[shanek]

There's a new version going up now; I don't know when it'll actually take. When it does, see if the credits are clearer. If they still aren't, I'll change the font.

I've made some other changes that aren't reflected in this update: after reading SezMe's advice, I've cut out the "Why should they be embarrassed?" bit and cut straight into the part about them being surprised. I've also divided it into three 10-minute segments, since I heard back from YouTube and their response was basically, "F*** you."

(Sorry, no female nudity.)

Keep the suggestions coming!

 

[SezMe]

Actually, what I said was that if they did think it wasn't for them and they wouldn't want to speak up, they wouldn't be surprised when it was revealed.

But the point is, it was still done in an open classroon setting where everyone was going with the "program" In that setting there is, in fact, real social pressure not to be a party pooper. That is why the Stossel piece did not rebut his point.

I have not looked at the new ones yet but I want to agree with Senex about the settng. I didn't say anything in my first post because I did not want to seem to be piling on, but man is that setting boring. How 'bout sitting in a chair with a lamp and a table too. Makes you seem more friendly. Or behind a desk like Andy Rooney. Something else.

Finally, can you get a friend to hold the script right up next to the camera lens so you don't have to look down to read?

I know this makes it a lot more work, but it might make you more effective.

ETA: Got links for the new uploads?

 

[shanek]

But the point is, it was still done in an open classroon setting where everyone was going with the "program" In that setting there is, in fact, real social pressure not to be a party pooper. That is why the Stossel piece did not rebut his point.

Not that particular point, no, but it did rebut the "fake doctor" point and the "sun-sign" point. And again, the fact that they were surprised rebuts it as well.

I have not looked at the new ones yet but I want to agree with Senex about the settng. I didn't say anything in my first post because I did not want to seem to be piling on, but man is that setting boring.

It's what I got right now, unless you'd really like to see me in my hospital bed. It'll have to do until I can get back home.

Finally, can you get a friend to hold the script right up next to the camera lens so you don't have to look down to read?

I did, but the camera was so close to me I still have to move my eyes a bit. Again, when I get back home, I can get the money together for a proper DV camera.

ETA: Got links for the new uploads?

It'll be the same link, whenever Google Video gets around to updating it. On their site they just say to allow "several hours." I'm guessing it'll be there tomorrow sometime.

 

[SezMe]

Yeah, turn your backside to the camera and open wide that gown.

But, seriously, I didn't realize you were still "incarcerated" I sure hope your improving on schedule and going home is not too far distant.

 

[shanek]

New version's up. Same link.

Thank you for the kind words.

 

[Senex]

I'm sorry to read you are under the weather but glad to see you are able to put your time to more uses than reading and watching TV. The video is getting better -- but you know what I always say, I have yet to see the video that can't be improved with a few scenes with nurses. Use what you got.

"Hello, nurse!" It's practically pavlovian.

 

[shanek]

Thanks. At this point, I think I can call it "good enough for YouTube."

 

[Moochie]

Thanks. At this point, I think I can call it "good enough for YouTube."

I watched the 27-minute version, so my observations are based on that.

1. It is too long.

2. No nudity -- female or otherwise.

3. At first I thought, "Oh no! Not another talking head!" -- Remember, it's a visual medium.

4. No nudity.

5. Try to position your cue cards differently and don't make it so obvious that you're reading. (Perhaps look off-camera for some of the time, like Young does.)

6. Pluto.


A good effort, Shane. Good on you for doing it.

Regards,

Moochie

 

[Lee Graham]

I enjoyed the video. It was fun! I hope you make more. Hell, we need more skeptical media out there, there just ain't enough.

As for having to glance away from the camera to read lines.. well, I've never attempted a video like that myself (but seeing yours has encouraged me to consider trying it sometime) but an idea for getting around this comes to mind. Why not memorize just one or two lines at a time and then give them directly to the camera, but at different angles and whatnot, then edit it all together with cuts from one POV to another, to another.. and so on. Seems to me that rapid short cuts is the norm for many professional videos - as long as the POV changes aren't too drastic, it adds a bit of visual pep. You'd kill two birds with one stone. Then again, there's the extra editing involved.. well, just a suggestion.

Looking forward to more!

 

[articulett]

I wish there was a national t.v. show that would present the best of internet debunking videos--The Fraud Squad. I know there'd be interest...and it would inspire some conversation...that's for sure. Some people might tune in to hear one thing debunked, and end up questioning another of their wootiful notions. Seeds get planted. People who believe they already know "the truth" (especially the "higher" truth) don't go out looking to be told differently.

I do, however...and I'm a teacher...so I can force my students to watch whatever debunking videos I happen to stumble across.

 

[shanek]

I enjoyed the video. It was fun! I hope you make more. Hell, we need more skeptical media out there, there just ain't enough.

Thanks!

1. It is too long.

As for having to glance away from the camera to read lines.. well, I've never attempted a video like that myself (but seeing yours has encouraged me to consider trying it sometime) but an idea for getting around this comes to mind. Why not memorize just one or two lines at a time and then give them directly to the camera, but at different angles and whatnot, then edit it all together with cuts from one POV to another, to another.. and so on. Seems to me that rapid short cuts is the norm for many professional videos - as long as the POV changes aren't too drastic, it adds a bit of visual pep. You'd kill two birds with one stone. Then again, there's the extra editing involved.. well, just a suggestion.

Yes, I'm finding out that it's easier to do it that way the first time than it is to go back and change it later. On the other hand, you can change a LOT more later on than one would think. Even the 27-minute version is quite a bit shorter than everything put together originally. I don't think there's a single clip that wasn't edited down.

(And actually, let's face it, a lot of that is because my skills as a presenter need a LOT of work. But the best way is doing, right?)

If anyone has any specific ideas for further edits, I'm all ears. I've watched it a bunch of times now and can't really make it shorter without refilming a bunch of stuff. I might redo a couple of them. (That speech of mine about the four forces is quite boring, isn't it?)

Looking forward to more!

Thanks! I'll go ahead and scoop myself: I'm working on debunking a creationist video next. Probably the first of many on that subject.

 

[shanek]

It's on YouTube now.

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:

 

[CLD]

Good effort, Shane. Thank you for doing this. Glad to see rationality represented in an entertaining way on YouTube.

One of the flaws in human nature is that most people judge the message by the messenger. That's why advertising, TV and film pay exorbitant salaries to retain the services of actors and spokesmodels. If you really want to get viewership and hold the attention of your audience you might consider getting a young, self-confident, attractive female to present the material you've written on-camera. In most sizeable cities, there are thousands of young people seeking acting jobs and opportunities to pursue their craft. A large number of these are often willing to offer their services to small productions for free in exchange for a videotape copy they can use as a sample to show prospective paying employers. You could try placing an ad on Craigslist (select your nearest city) in the "gigs" or "jobs" section, as Craigslist is a popular venue for exactly these kinds of ads.

PS: I think the applicability of the advice above is predicated on your answer to the question, "What's my primary goal? To promote myself as a debunker a la Randi, P&T?...or to promote my message?"

 

[shanek]

Thanks, CLD. Those are things to consider once I get back home and can get a little better quality setup. For the time being, it's a total DIY thing.

But I'm having fun with it.

(In the meantime, if anyone with a nice resonant English accent wants to record a few lines from The Origin of Species for the next vid, let me know!)