ID Pushed into Public Classrooms

[Eos of the Eons]

They have catholic and other private schools where they teach what they want to. We don't make them teach evolution. Why can't they stay out of the public schools? Whatever happened to the separation of Church and State? They don't even understand how evolution works, but they still attack it. Evolution is about the evolution of life, not about the the origins of life. That is biogenesis. They don't teach that in schools. Why are they so threatened by education? They don't trust their faith anymore, so they have to erode school systems? They can go to church as much as they want to and learn about ID and creationism. I'm really horrified that their intolerance is now allowed in the classroom.

State Your Case Anti-evolutionist activism, inspired and rejuvenated
by the Intelligent Design movement, is spreading across the country.
Get ready for lawsuits.
(Skeptical Inquirer Online, 10/25/2004)
http://www.csicop.org/doubtandabout/anti-evolution/


If they can't get ID in, then they want this so called "critical analysis of evolution" and why scientists are still trying to find answers to the "theory" they haven't found yet.

Lesson Plans

Theory
A supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain
something, especially one based on general principles
independent of the thing to be explained.

Nevermind the "Theory of Gravity"

discuss where anomalies led to the collection of data
that further explained the phenomena and contributed to
changing scientific understandings.
• Spontaneous generation versus biogenesis
Several pieces of data could be used. One
example is Francesco Redi’s observation that
flies must contact meat in order for maggots to
appear on the meat.

Arguments Against:
-Continuous evolution/transitions

The fossil record as a whole shows
that major evolutionary changes took place suddenly over brief periods of time followed by longer periods of “stasis” during which no significant change in form or transitional organisms appeared (Punctuated Equilibria).

Then they show an argument for Macroevolution, but then the argument shows the evidence only ever shows microevolution.

It does not demonstrate the ability of
natural selection to produce new forms of life. Although new strains of Staphylococcus aureus have evolved, the speciation of bacteria (prokaryotes) has not been observed, and neither has the evolution of bacteria into more complex eukaryotes.

Write a brief summary of what you have read and discovered regarding your particular aspect and how it challenges evolutionary theory.

They skip over necessary information in order to get kids to question the theory as a whole. The arguments against adress information that should have appeared in the arguments for. What I mean is that the arguments for do not match their arguments against. They leave out information that would argue their arguments against.

Very selective teaching.

On the materials suggested for reading:

The trouble is, these critiques repeatedly misrepresent the state of scientific knowledge so as to cast unwarranted doubts on the theory of evolution.


...it does provide an array of critiques of evolution that have little scientific basis but derive from the ID movement's literature, and especially Wells' Icons of Evolution. An earlier draft of the lesson plan even directed students to visit anti-evolutionist websites. But the final version omits both references to Icons and the offending web links.

 

[balrog666]

They have catholic and other private schools where they teach what they want to.



So? Home school and teach anything you want to your stupid kids.




We don't make them teach evolution.



We don't make them teach nuclear physics either. So what? Next question?



Why can't they stay out of the public schools? Whatever happened to the separation of Church and State?



What the hell are you raving about? I think you should just get a life. Or a girlfriend. Or a pet. Whatever.





They don't even understand how evolution works, but they still attack it. Evolution is about the evolution of life, not about the the origins of life. That is biogenesis. They don't teach that in schools. Why are they so threatened by education? They don't trust their faith anymore, so they have to erode school systems? They can go to church as much as they want to and learn about ID and creationism. I'm really horrified that their intolerance is now allowed in the classroom.



What the hell is your problem? Let idiots teach their kids to be idiots. That leaves even more for us wolves!

 

[Eos of the Eons]

*rolls eyes*

And you're going to pay me so I can afford to stay at home and home school my kids?

We pay our taxes so that our kids can get an education.

If you seriously don't see a problem with kids not getting an education in public schools then you're the one that not only needs a life, but a clue as well.

Here, I'll help you get a clue, so read and learn: http://www.csicop.org/doubtandabout/anti-evolution/

 

[Dr. Popalot]

In Georgia's Cobb Counry, biology books are reqiured to have a disclaimer sticker that says Evolution is just a theory.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4159464

Obviously the people promoting this waste of money don't understand the scientific meaning of "theory". They think it means its just an interesting idea/argument. No, to be considered a theory it has to have lots of evidence supporting it, like say... gravity. This really shows how little many people know about science and want to defend their personal religious ideas with taxpayer money and political authority (school board). ID and Evolution are not equal and competing scientific theories!

 

[Eos of the Eons]

This really shows how little many people know about science and want to defend their personal religious ideas with taxpayer money

It shows how much they don't want to know as well. They stuff ID and creationism down our throats, but refuse to even learn any basic facts. The facts are withing the theory. You know, like the theory of gravity. Figuring out exactly how it works takes a lot learning. The information is out there, but they don't care.

 

[Khonshu]

You know, a clever teacher might find a way to use the disclaimer to discuss what a scientific theory really is...

Then again, it's Cobb County - having grown up in Georgia, there's a fair chance the teacher would probably get death threats, have his/her home vandalized, etc. - then the school district would find some excuse to fire the teacher.

The family of the kid that opposed having to sit through a prayer before football games got death threats from the good Christians in the neighboring Douglas County school system.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Sighs. The fact that you are no longer allowed to teach facts or you'll get death threats is disheartening Khonshu. Facts stand no matter what. Facts don't have opinions. People are pushing opinions on them. It's the same fight that people had when trying to prove the earth revolves around the sun. At some point it becomes glaringly obvious. That is my only hope in this case. I just wish I didn't feel so hopeless.

If people allow prayer at football games, then they need to allow other religions equal opportunity. Some wiccans ought to get together with a "good luck spell" or something. I'm sure humanists could come up with something as well.

Do creationists offer evolution as an "alternative" theory in their creationist classes? If confronted with this question, their motives would be laid bare. They don't care about education.
They only care that everybody has to listen to THEIR beliefs.

 

[pupdog]

The nonsense was getting so bad that the local paper (York Daily Record) now has a special on-line section documenting the controversy in this town.

NB: one of the newly-appointed school board members home schools his kids.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

This is the ID "teaching" in a nutshell. It's more like lie, deceive, ignore, and make up information to give students. It's not science and it's not even close to actual information.

Pandas' goal of presenting two alternative interpretations of the phenomena in six specific areas of science is laudable. Unfortunately Pandas' implementation has nothing to recommend it. Most of the facts are incorrect, many pertinent facts are omitted, many evolutionary concepts are distorted beyond recognition. For example, evolution is radically redefined. The mechanisms of evolution and punctuated equilibrium are grossly misrepresented. The nature of the fossil record is distorted and the existence of well-documented transitional forms denied. It is implied that pandas and marsupials cannot be fitted into a hierarchic classification. And finally, to discredit the protein sequencing evidence, Pandas claims that evolution requires a ladder of living forms, rather than a branching phylogenetic tree with the living forms at the tips. And after being fed all this misinforÂ_mation, the students are asked to form their own opinion! If they believe what Pandas has preÂ_sented, they will have been thoroughly deceived.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/5388_51_sonleitner_what39s_wr_11_24_2004.asp

ID pushers don't care about this. It suits them to lie and and deceive in order to put forth their agenda. Actually learning evolution would kill their deceptions, so they want to make sure nobody learns it as it actually is.

It really reminds me of when I did go to Sunday school. Their poo pooing of evolution was just like this. Omit facts and present a false picture of how evolution is taught. They want this "information" in the classroom so that children only get decieved instead of getting an actual education.

 

[KelvinG]

Actually, I think that some ID proponents are now saying that they have no problem with evolution being taught in the way that it currently is, as long as ID is taught as an alternative. This way the students can make up their own minds.

Their agenda is two fold. Firstly, they think this strategy will make them seem reasonable and objective. "Hey we're not against evolution, we just want ID to get equal time." Their hope is the the public will perceive this as the ID community extending an olive branch. And when the scientific community doesn't agree with this plan, they are painted as the bad ones. They become the close minded ones who don't want science class to be fair and objective. It's a total bum wrap of course, but that's the way it's percieved.

Secondly, they know that if students are presented with an ID alternative, they'll likely embrace it. Let's face it, it's what most people want to believe. Students won't have the experience or knowledge to be able to understand that ID is a total scam (unless the teachers mention it as being just that. My guess is the ID community doesn't want it being taught in that way!!)

This "equal time" argument is very popular among the average person. And it doesn't surprise me.
The slimeballs beyond the ID movement are constantly trying new techniques and gimmicks in an attempt to hoodwink the unsuspecting public.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

They can get equal time when they get equal facts.

 

[Brown]

Did it indeed seem probable, as he had once overheard Dunbar ask, that the answers to the riddles of creation would be supplied by people too ignorant to understand the mechanics of rainfall?

-- Joseph Heller, "Catch-22"

The most insidious aspect of this whole business is that the "Intelligent Design" movement is, in its essence, a movement that pretends to be intellectual but in fact promotes not thinking, not investigating, not testing, not researching, not evaluating, not discussing.

We don't need to explore the origins of life because those facts have already been given to us via revelation through Scripture.

We can never understand how biological developments appear and change, so let's not even try to understand. Let's throw up our hands and ascribe it all to a greater intelligence.

We don't need to understand the complexities or the rules of science, because that would require hard work.

We don't value research or the accumulation of evidence, and if it doesn't make any sense to us, it must therefore be of no value.

The irony of the whole thing is stunning. They call it "Intelligent Design," but it is an appeal for stupidity.

 

[KelvinG]

Good point Brown.

It reminds me of a Christian friend I have that I used to debate evolution vs. creation with (I say used to because I finally got to annoyed at her monumental ignorance)
She used to take delight in the idea that science can't explain everything. If I would say "well, we can't explain that yet, but maybe one day." She would respond "Ah hah, it must be explained by God then!"
What the hell kind of logic is that?
She was more than happy to invoke the "God" explanation anytime a problem was encountered that could not be adequately explained by science.

It is the height of laziness. Throw your arms up in the air and say "It must be God!"

 

[Zep]

I always like to think problems through backwards. Really! So here goes a train-of-thought in that direction...

1) The problem with trying to get rid of ID is that you are trying to fight sheer ignorance and apathy, and extreme religious bias.

2) The harder you oppose it, the worse you look, the better they look.

3) IDers are relying and using opposition to ID to bolster their position. This comes from the (ignorant) premise that if your idea is opposed then "science" hates you so you MUST be right!

4) Instead (here's the backwards bit), do not oppose ID "equal time", but encourage it. In fact, encourage "equal time" for each and every creation myth that can be found in the world. Spare none of them Navajo, Egyptian, Moslem, Hindu, Shinto, Wicca, everything! - the children MUST be exposed to them ALL so they can "decide which is right". If ID is a valid "science" then all creation myths are equally valid "science". Make a (big) list.

5) Petition local communities, education boards, politicians at all levels, etc, to include this huge list in the science curriculum. Push them really hard - demand equal time to ID and evolution. Try to enlist IDers' support, after all they thought of it first.

6) Keep pushing hard. Make sure that science texts have ALL these "theories" represented in equal proportion. And/or a multitude of labels attached to the books that say "All other ideas of creation except for [insert religion here] are only theories."

7) See how long before someone somewhere says it's all so much balderdash, that only science should be taught in science classes and religion in religion classes, and the whole ID movement falls in a heap.


Daydreams...

 

[KelvinG]

I see where you are coming from Zep, but I think that your solution only addresses the teaching of ID that takes creations myths into account. And I don't think that's what most IDers currently want. They realize that approach ain't going to work anymore.
The more subtle, incidious method of ID which is currently all the rage is the William Dembski, Michael Behe models. In other words, don't mention who the creator is and don't associate the new ID "science" with Genesis, (or any other creation myth for that matter). Package it in a way that seems like science to the naive and the ignorant, and then let the students fill in the blanks.
In other words, "wink, wink, we don't tell you who the creator is, but I think we all know who it is."
In other words, all you need to do is provide a so called "scientific" theory that the universe is to complex to not have a designer and let the students decide who that designer is." And, in most schools in western culture, the Christian God will get the nod.

Old school IDers realized they had to sell ID in a way that didn't mention Genesis, God, Jesus, etc.
Thus, the new school of ID, where it's way more difficult for the average person to tell the ◊◊◊◊ from the shinola.

 

[Zep]

I see your point, Kelvin, and if you expand on my idea it can make an even bigger mockery of the IDer's infiltration method.

You see, if you include ALL the failed and failing scientific ideas into the curriculum, not just the creation myths, the whole thing will get even MORE clogged with useless trivia. Science students will have to wade through such crap as flat-earthism, geocentrism, alchemy, voodooism, homeopathy, scientology, etc, etc. Not to mention witchcraft, sorcery, spirit-healing and similar stuff that the IDers will find total anathema.

Again, the whole idea is to completely clog up the science system with all the other non-science you can find as well as ID. It MUST be forced to be allowed, especially on grounds of "equal time". And eventually it will collapse in on itself, get rationalised, and at that time the ID notion will be tossed out with all the other dreck.

 

[KelvinG]

Hmm, I see what you're getting at.
However, as you acknowledge earlier, it's a pipe dream.

Your quote in particular:

Again, the whole idea is to completely clog up the science system with all the other non-science you can find as well as ID.

This strikes me more as a two steps backwards, one step forward kind of idea.
It would certainly prove a point, but ultimately destroy the whole idea of science.
I can understand where you are coming from though. The more the scientific community fights to keep ID out of the classroom, the more the IDers look like poor, innocent victims whose rights are being trampled on.
There is this strange new movement that has this notion that science is a democracy where students get to decide idea what works for them. So, in that sense, you are correct. Let's present them with evidence that the earth is flat, witchcraft and voodoo are legit. Then let them decide. The whole idea of science becomes such a joke, that no one gets want they want. Of course, legitimate science probably loses as well.

A reasonable person cringes at the idea, but we're obviously not dealing with reasonable people here.

 

[Zep]

You are absolutely correct - the science curriculum will start to look like an advertisement for an Alt.Med. carnival. However I don't think the genuine science will get thrown out with the trash, rather I think it will be the only one to survive. The reason is that it is the only one that is NOT religion-based, based on science alone.

Of course, I could be wrong - the whole thing could wind up a giant mess of pottage, and the children will be taught nothing that will help them make any progress in life, and the Chinese (who are discarding religious and superstitious teachings wholesale) will overhaul the USA in short order. As will any other country with even a half-baked science curriculum and a modicum of support resources. But that's a decision for the local school boards, I guess!

 

[Animalia]

I don't think the scientific community should try to compromise with the ID people at all. We need to stick to our guns and not allow cultural relativism invade the science classroom. I am all for the teacher having a discussion with the students about how different religions have different views on evolution but make it clear that evolution is the basis of biology and they are expected to learn it as such.

There are too many people who think that we should let differing views to be given equal time because, "really, isn't science just another religion or worldview and what makes it so much better?" These are all views based in ignorance and the only way to fight that is with educaion. And not just formal schooling kind of education. Like letters to the editor and such...

I think there are those people in the ID who truly know the difference and know that their ultimate goal is to replace evolution with creationism but I think the majority of the public is truly caught up in the idea that ID is a legitimate scientific theory and they don't understand why it can't be in the classroom. These are the people that could possibly be reached by a concerted effort to educate them. Maybe.

 

[pupdog]

The IDiots cannot convince scientists that their account is truly a scientific alternative to a well-established theory, so they are trying to convince the kids.

Let's face it, ID was never intended (well, not in its most recent existence) to be science. According to their own writings, science is evil and must be replaced by "theistic science."