Roadtoad
Bufo Caminus Inedibilis
After reading through a thread or two on this, I felt that this ought to go somewhere else. (I could be wrong, so mods and admin should feel free to merge this with another thread if they feel so inclined.)
I have to admit, given my spiritual leanings, (still Christian in name, though I no longer attend church; I refuse to be abused), that there's a lot that appeals in Intelligent Design. The idea that an intelligent creator is behind our universe, and that science explains the methodology, has a stong appeal because it neither denies God, nor does it deny science. It purports to leave an open door for discourse and examination, the ultimate declaration that you can have your cake and eat it, too. Ontologists have gotta love this.
Unfortunately, I have to deal in a real world, not one that's comfortable and convenient.
The more I read of ID, the more I realize that it's ultimately a denial of scientific reason. Science deals in cause, effect, matter, rationality. Those who are ID's greatest proponents have demonstrated time and again that they deny such things. I've lost track of the number of Christians who will pray for a red light to turn green, (or for a green to stay on a little longer), then either claim "the Lord is with me" when they get the desired result, or morosely declare that "God's will be done" when they get something else. It's a minor detail, but when you examine it in a larger context, it's telling.
I find it more than a little repulsive that people who would otherwise demonstrate rationality will hit their knees and demand that the Laws of Physics be brought to a halt, or that these people demand an exemption based on either their own good will in making such a request, or failing that, based on God's Grace. There's something lacking in the wisdom of even making such a prayer, and it demonstrates a serious lack of understanding about the way the real world works.
To put it another way: If I hold a wrench at shoulder height from my body, and let it go, the wrench will fall. A smaller body is drawn to a larger one. That's the Law of Gravity, and it hasn't changed in an eternity. It's immutable. There are exceptions, but those are few and far between, and they're explainable. Furthermore, they're demonstrable, which means that damned near anyone can examine the evidence and understand what's going on.
First and formost, this is a GOOD THING. It means that I can extrapolate from the data wise and foolish choices, which, when you think about it, would go a long way towards extending my earthly life. (Considering that even the Bible says I get one shot, and only one shot, I think extending that life is a wise move.) In other words, since the wrench drops from my greasy mitt, it would probably not be a smart move for me to stand on the top of a cliff and take a step off. I'd probably either make a mess on the bottom of the cliff, or if I was lucky, just be hurt really bad. No amount of prayer is going to change the results.
Taking this a little further, we know that there's any number of causes for disease. Trial and error over the centuries has shown that in some cases, disease is caused by bacteria, and if you use antibiotics properly, you can cure someone's illness. In other cases, we've learned, disease is caused by a virus, and that some medications can reduce the symptoms of illness, but ultimately, the virus must run its course. That does not change just because someone is a Good Person. It's nature. That there are people who will bend knees demanding that biology take a back seat to competent medical care is sad, but ultimately, you can take some bitter comfort in the notion that the gene pool will be improved by the removal of stupidity from the human race.
Sorry to be so harsh, but this is reality. The idea that a Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Eternal and Immutable God, one who is also supposed to be Just, Loving, and Merciful, will somehow overrule the hard rules of the Laws of Physics on the basis of someone's discomfort is monstrous. It's a denial of Science and Reason. How do you replicate the results of a successful prayer in the lab? I miss my father desperately, and I would give anything to know what could have saved him from a sudden heart attack in November of 2000, (aside from quitting smoking in his 20's, and exercising regularly). If a prayer would have worked, that's great, but where is the evidence?
The reality is that there isn't any. And as someone who has worked in vocational ministry, (take note, Stamenflicker), that's a hard thing to admit, but the reality is that it's true. That I have to admit that some of the "miracles" I witnessed were either psychosomatic reactions, or the results of misdiagnosis, is a hard thing to accept, but if I want to live in a real world, I have to admit that these are the facts.
I am not the person to tell you not to pray. You have to make up your own mind on that one. All I'm saying is that the evidence is there that no God is going to overrule the Laws of Physics just because, hey, I've never failed a piss test, I love my wife, I love my kids, and if I say the magic words, TLOP are going to be set aside. The results are not replicable in the lab, and for the most part, except for some very rare cases, (and even those have been explained by science), I have to go with what I know can and will work in reality.
ID denies science, but, (and you've gotten a taste of this), it also denies God.
How can you claim to be a devout Christian and think that God, just because you're a nice guy, is going to allow you a pass? How is that merciful? Or for that matter, (and perhaps this is the real question), how is that just? It's not going to happen, not if God is just, because if it must be allowed for one when all the rules are obeyed and the conditions met, it must be allowed for all. Since I have yet to see the evidence of this happening, I am forced to accept the idea that either the tales are false, or the result of delusion, or that the rules and conditions are so incredibly difficult to achieve that only some sort of "Uebermensch" is capable of fulfilling them.
I'm just a trucker. That lets me out of the Uebermensch camp.
If I had to guess as to why ID still has any adherents, I'm left to think that it's a comfort thing for the average person, but for those in authority, those have the education and intellectual capability to know that it's a crock, I'm convinced that it's about the power.
People like Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart are not stupid. Nor are most of those who travel the same road as they do. It's a serious mistake to think that they are, and to classify them as a bunch of stupid rednecks who are incapable of knowing better. Knowledge, being one source of power, is something they cannot completely control in an open society, so it must either be countered with better knowledge, or it must become an object of mistrust.
Working towards better knowledge is a wise and prudent move. Most societies that survive do so because they work towards the advancement of civilization as a whole. (Those who slam the United States seem to be very quick to forget just how much the US has contributed to medical science, as one example.) It's now a source of strength not only for a nation, but for an individual. I can make a rational, informed choice. (That's one reason I don't use AOL.
)
Part of the power that Falwell, as one example, holds over people is that he says the things they want to hear, in part because he panders to the discomfort of the new. He offers something "solid" in the guise of a friendly face and familiar words. As long as people aren't overly challenged, and are offered something comfortable, they can hold on to their prejudices. It's the illusion of maintaining some form of control of both the civil and the social order. (This, in part, can explain why you have these huge, monolithic churches, such as the Crystal Cathedral, and why you have so many dinky churches of around two to three hundred people, the majority of whom show up at Christmas and Easter.)
But the fact is, if you want to hold onto Civil Order, you have to provide the necessary services to do so. One example would be the days of the Bubonic Plague in Europe. The Church provided hospices in many parts of Europe, and in turn built up goodwill with the people in their communities. There were saner minds which utilized scientific reasoning, and learned that it was the fleas borne by the rats which fed on trash in the streets which brought the Bubonic Plague. In the end, it was simple hygeine that helped certain cities maintain Civil Order.
On the other hand, you also had in cities like Wuerzburg, Germany, (where I lived for a time), where you had witch trials held under the direction of the "Iron Bishop" Von Eulenburg; at one point, he even put his 12 year old nephew to death for being a witch. Since the city was suffering the ravages of the Plague, (as was much of Europe at the time), it was obviously due to some egregious sin on the part of the people. That the Plague did not abate even after nearly 50,000 "witches" were burned at the stake near the Sanderau didn't phase the Iron Bishop; clearly they hadn't gotten the right witches. The trials didn't end until the Bishop himself had been accused, (probably the only accurate accusation made), and in the end, the trials may have contributed to Franconia becoming part of Bavaria.
This is key: Most of those who are promoting ID are, in fact, trying to cling to, or achieve, civil and social leadership. They're offering a convenient way to have "science" and "religion," and they're trying to do this by bastardizing both. They're offering people a chance to claim a piece of social serenity, particularly against those whom Church leaders say are leading our children away to their own destruction. That such forces of "evil" take the guise of Teachers, Scientists, Politicians, and the like, is nothing new. These are the same targets we've had before throughout history, and nothing has changed. Bring these people under control, with their heretical ideas, and you can save civilization.
It doesn't work. In the end, people are smart enough to recognize they're being played. If I had to predict, I believe there will be those who will continue to follow ID or some variation of it, but ultimately, the majority of people are going to see that their survival depends on rational, reasoning minds. People are going to see ID for the apostasy that it is, and are going to make a reasoned choice, if for not other reason, than simply because they must. No one uses Galen's texts to understand human anatomy, particularly because Gray's is so much more accurate. Nor do we turn to Aristotle to understand physics, particularly since others have done better work in the years since. Science may move forward slowly, but it does move forward.
It's a hard road, but you either take it, or you wish like hell you had.
I have to admit, given my spiritual leanings, (still Christian in name, though I no longer attend church; I refuse to be abused), that there's a lot that appeals in Intelligent Design. The idea that an intelligent creator is behind our universe, and that science explains the methodology, has a stong appeal because it neither denies God, nor does it deny science. It purports to leave an open door for discourse and examination, the ultimate declaration that you can have your cake and eat it, too. Ontologists have gotta love this.
Unfortunately, I have to deal in a real world, not one that's comfortable and convenient.
The more I read of ID, the more I realize that it's ultimately a denial of scientific reason. Science deals in cause, effect, matter, rationality. Those who are ID's greatest proponents have demonstrated time and again that they deny such things. I've lost track of the number of Christians who will pray for a red light to turn green, (or for a green to stay on a little longer), then either claim "the Lord is with me" when they get the desired result, or morosely declare that "God's will be done" when they get something else. It's a minor detail, but when you examine it in a larger context, it's telling.
I find it more than a little repulsive that people who would otherwise demonstrate rationality will hit their knees and demand that the Laws of Physics be brought to a halt, or that these people demand an exemption based on either their own good will in making such a request, or failing that, based on God's Grace. There's something lacking in the wisdom of even making such a prayer, and it demonstrates a serious lack of understanding about the way the real world works.
To put it another way: If I hold a wrench at shoulder height from my body, and let it go, the wrench will fall. A smaller body is drawn to a larger one. That's the Law of Gravity, and it hasn't changed in an eternity. It's immutable. There are exceptions, but those are few and far between, and they're explainable. Furthermore, they're demonstrable, which means that damned near anyone can examine the evidence and understand what's going on.
First and formost, this is a GOOD THING. It means that I can extrapolate from the data wise and foolish choices, which, when you think about it, would go a long way towards extending my earthly life. (Considering that even the Bible says I get one shot, and only one shot, I think extending that life is a wise move.) In other words, since the wrench drops from my greasy mitt, it would probably not be a smart move for me to stand on the top of a cliff and take a step off. I'd probably either make a mess on the bottom of the cliff, or if I was lucky, just be hurt really bad. No amount of prayer is going to change the results.
Taking this a little further, we know that there's any number of causes for disease. Trial and error over the centuries has shown that in some cases, disease is caused by bacteria, and if you use antibiotics properly, you can cure someone's illness. In other cases, we've learned, disease is caused by a virus, and that some medications can reduce the symptoms of illness, but ultimately, the virus must run its course. That does not change just because someone is a Good Person. It's nature. That there are people who will bend knees demanding that biology take a back seat to competent medical care is sad, but ultimately, you can take some bitter comfort in the notion that the gene pool will be improved by the removal of stupidity from the human race.
Sorry to be so harsh, but this is reality. The idea that a Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, Eternal and Immutable God, one who is also supposed to be Just, Loving, and Merciful, will somehow overrule the hard rules of the Laws of Physics on the basis of someone's discomfort is monstrous. It's a denial of Science and Reason. How do you replicate the results of a successful prayer in the lab? I miss my father desperately, and I would give anything to know what could have saved him from a sudden heart attack in November of 2000, (aside from quitting smoking in his 20's, and exercising regularly). If a prayer would have worked, that's great, but where is the evidence?
The reality is that there isn't any. And as someone who has worked in vocational ministry, (take note, Stamenflicker), that's a hard thing to admit, but the reality is that it's true. That I have to admit that some of the "miracles" I witnessed were either psychosomatic reactions, or the results of misdiagnosis, is a hard thing to accept, but if I want to live in a real world, I have to admit that these are the facts.
I am not the person to tell you not to pray. You have to make up your own mind on that one. All I'm saying is that the evidence is there that no God is going to overrule the Laws of Physics just because, hey, I've never failed a piss test, I love my wife, I love my kids, and if I say the magic words, TLOP are going to be set aside. The results are not replicable in the lab, and for the most part, except for some very rare cases, (and even those have been explained by science), I have to go with what I know can and will work in reality.
ID denies science, but, (and you've gotten a taste of this), it also denies God.
How can you claim to be a devout Christian and think that God, just because you're a nice guy, is going to allow you a pass? How is that merciful? Or for that matter, (and perhaps this is the real question), how is that just? It's not going to happen, not if God is just, because if it must be allowed for one when all the rules are obeyed and the conditions met, it must be allowed for all. Since I have yet to see the evidence of this happening, I am forced to accept the idea that either the tales are false, or the result of delusion, or that the rules and conditions are so incredibly difficult to achieve that only some sort of "Uebermensch" is capable of fulfilling them.
I'm just a trucker. That lets me out of the Uebermensch camp.
If I had to guess as to why ID still has any adherents, I'm left to think that it's a comfort thing for the average person, but for those in authority, those have the education and intellectual capability to know that it's a crock, I'm convinced that it's about the power.
People like Jerry Falwell and Jimmy Swaggart are not stupid. Nor are most of those who travel the same road as they do. It's a serious mistake to think that they are, and to classify them as a bunch of stupid rednecks who are incapable of knowing better. Knowledge, being one source of power, is something they cannot completely control in an open society, so it must either be countered with better knowledge, or it must become an object of mistrust.
Working towards better knowledge is a wise and prudent move. Most societies that survive do so because they work towards the advancement of civilization as a whole. (Those who slam the United States seem to be very quick to forget just how much the US has contributed to medical science, as one example.) It's now a source of strength not only for a nation, but for an individual. I can make a rational, informed choice. (That's one reason I don't use AOL.
)Part of the power that Falwell, as one example, holds over people is that he says the things they want to hear, in part because he panders to the discomfort of the new. He offers something "solid" in the guise of a friendly face and familiar words. As long as people aren't overly challenged, and are offered something comfortable, they can hold on to their prejudices. It's the illusion of maintaining some form of control of both the civil and the social order. (This, in part, can explain why you have these huge, monolithic churches, such as the Crystal Cathedral, and why you have so many dinky churches of around two to three hundred people, the majority of whom show up at Christmas and Easter.)
But the fact is, if you want to hold onto Civil Order, you have to provide the necessary services to do so. One example would be the days of the Bubonic Plague in Europe. The Church provided hospices in many parts of Europe, and in turn built up goodwill with the people in their communities. There were saner minds which utilized scientific reasoning, and learned that it was the fleas borne by the rats which fed on trash in the streets which brought the Bubonic Plague. In the end, it was simple hygeine that helped certain cities maintain Civil Order.
On the other hand, you also had in cities like Wuerzburg, Germany, (where I lived for a time), where you had witch trials held under the direction of the "Iron Bishop" Von Eulenburg; at one point, he even put his 12 year old nephew to death for being a witch. Since the city was suffering the ravages of the Plague, (as was much of Europe at the time), it was obviously due to some egregious sin on the part of the people. That the Plague did not abate even after nearly 50,000 "witches" were burned at the stake near the Sanderau didn't phase the Iron Bishop; clearly they hadn't gotten the right witches. The trials didn't end until the Bishop himself had been accused, (probably the only accurate accusation made), and in the end, the trials may have contributed to Franconia becoming part of Bavaria.
This is key: Most of those who are promoting ID are, in fact, trying to cling to, or achieve, civil and social leadership. They're offering a convenient way to have "science" and "religion," and they're trying to do this by bastardizing both. They're offering people a chance to claim a piece of social serenity, particularly against those whom Church leaders say are leading our children away to their own destruction. That such forces of "evil" take the guise of Teachers, Scientists, Politicians, and the like, is nothing new. These are the same targets we've had before throughout history, and nothing has changed. Bring these people under control, with their heretical ideas, and you can save civilization.
It doesn't work. In the end, people are smart enough to recognize they're being played. If I had to predict, I believe there will be those who will continue to follow ID or some variation of it, but ultimately, the majority of people are going to see that their survival depends on rational, reasoning minds. People are going to see ID for the apostasy that it is, and are going to make a reasoned choice, if for not other reason, than simply because they must. No one uses Galen's texts to understand human anatomy, particularly because Gray's is so much more accurate. Nor do we turn to Aristotle to understand physics, particularly since others have done better work in the years since. Science may move forward slowly, but it does move forward.
It's a hard road, but you either take it, or you wish like hell you had.
