I walmart evil?

[Anti_Hypeman]

You can see the PBS special online http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

I agree that walmarts business practices are bad but I dont really blame them for it. US consumers demand Chinese made products at any and all cost to our own economy. If walmart didnt do business the way they do some other company would and put them out of business. We have decided as a nation that child labor in some 3rd world mud hole is worth it to save $1 on a punch bowl.

Americans demand slave labor, sweatshops, and outsourcing. Walmart is only giving us what we want.

 

[DavidJames]

You can see the PBS special online http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

I agree that walmarts business practices are bad but I dont really blame them for it. US consumers demand Chinese made products at any and all cost to our own economy. If walmart didnt do business the way they do some other company would and put them out of business. We have decided as a nation that child labor in some 3rd world mud hole is worth it to save $1 on a punch bowl.

Americans demand slave labor, sweatshops, and outsourcing. Walmart is only giving us what we want.

I never quite understood the volume of venom (VoV ) directed at WalMart. We had one in my town, a new super center just opened and WalMart wants to open a 2nd super center. Council meetings go crazy with people trying to stop them. At the same time Target's going to open a new super Target and there isn't a peep.

If WalMart is breaking laws then that should be addressed. No one is forcing people to shop or work there.

 

[Grammatron]

I never quite understood the volume of venom (VoV ) directed at WalMart. We had one in my town, a new super center just opened and WalMart wants to open a 2nd super center. Council meetings go crazy with people trying to stop them. At the same time Target's going to open a new super Target and there isn't a peep.

If WalMart is breaking laws then that should be addressed. No one is forcing people to shop or work there.

Exactly, let people vote with their wallets. There isn't Wal Mart within 30 miles of me because people fear it so but there is no shortage of Targets.

 

[WildCat]

Exactly, let people vote with their wallets. There isn't Wal Mart within 30 miles of me because people fear it so but there is no shortage of Targets.

Same here. The Chicago City Council wouldn't let a Walmart open in a depressed area on the south side, though the alderman in whose ward it would have been in pushed hard for it. So it opened just across the border in Evergreen Park, and had over 12,000 applicants for 350 jobs. Apparently, people don't mind working there despite the city council's efforts to keep them from the horrors of gainful employment. And now Evergreen Park gets the millions in annual sales tax revenue...

 

[Beerina]

I never quite understood the volume of venom (VoV ) directed at WalMart. We had one in my town, a new super center just opened and WalMart wants to open a 2nd super center. Council meetings go crazy with people trying to stop them. At the same time Target's going to open a new super Target and there isn't a peep.

If WalMart is breaking laws then that should be addressed. No one is forcing people to shop or work there.

My wife is anti-Walmart, yet that's where we go shopping frequently.

People don't want it because they've been trained like a slobbering dog to think it's evil in some way, yet they love the variety and selection and, in some cases, the prices. The place is <b>jammed on Sunday evenings</b> when tons of people <b>actually want to do weekly grocery shopping</b>. So much so many supermarket chains are now 24 hours, too.

 

[specious_reasons]

Same here. The Chicago City Council wouldn't let a Walmart open in a depressed area on the south side, though the alderman in whose ward it would have been in pushed hard for it. So it opened just across the border in Evergreen Park, and had over 12,000 applicants for 350 jobs. Apparently, people don't mind working there despite the city council's efforts to keep them from the horrors of gainful employment. And now Evergreen Park gets the millions in annual sales tax revenue...

I'm divided on the issue, since I'm not certain Wal-Mart is actual "gainful employment." Sure it's much better for everyone than if the employees were just sitting on the dole, but you and I are still paying paying for their healthcare and other support services.

My wife, when she was a doctor in a small town, hated to shop at the local Wal-Mart. She worked in the Federally-funded free clinic and saw too many of her patients working in the store.

Besides the fact I generally hated to shop there, too, I would say the biggest concern I have are the allegations of union-busting. If Wal-Mart can use its collective buying power to influence prices, why can't employees do the same?

 

[Furious]

I never quite understood the volume of venom (VoV ) directed at WalMart. We had one in my town, a new super center just opened and WalMart wants to open a 2nd super center. Council meetings go crazy with people trying to stop them. At the same time Target's going to open a new super Target and there isn't a peep.

If WalMart is breaking laws then that should be addressed. No one is forcing people to shop or work there.

Whether its warranted or not, Walmart doesn't simply have the weight of selling cheap foreign stuff; there are also the questionable hiring practices, allegations of gender discrimination, and a whole list of less than savory things:

http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/facts/

Don't get me wrong, most of that is pure woo or nonspecific to Wal-Mart. But the lens is pointed right on them for being the largest and most notorius.

Kind of like no one remebers who came in second in a race, there is a lot less scrutiny on the second worst retailer for business practices.

 

[New Ager]

(David)

I never quite understood the volume of venom (VoV ) directed at WalMart. We had one in my town, a new super center just opened and WalMart wants to open a 2nd super center. Council meetings go crazy with people trying to stop them. At the same time Target's going to open a new super Target and there isn't a peep.
If WalMart is breaking laws then that should be addressed. No one is forcing people to shop or work there.

(New Ager)

I can help you on this one.

Wal-Mart makes a lot of money and some liberals just don't like it. They have a lot of power and some people just don't want to see a company have that much power even if they are helping our country a lot with low prices and lots of jobs.

There is a lot of misleading or exaggerated propaganda about Wal-Mart. I'm sure with a company that big, that some abuses go on in certain stores, but I have my doubts that there is some company wide conspiracy to screw people over.

(Specious)

I would say the biggest concern I have are the allegations of union-busting.

(New Ager)

I don't recall there being any right to have a union.

Wal-Mart has the business sense to know that a union will drive up prices and make it difficult to fire people. Who wants a union telling you how to run your business?

If Wal-Mart is such a terrible place, then why do so many people work there? And how come everytime a new one opens, thousands show up to apply for a job?

And by the way, PBS is a leftwing station. I doubt they will give Wal-Mart a fair shake. Capitalism is not for many liberals.

 

[DavidJames]

I can help you on this one....Wal-Mart makes a lot of money and some liberals just don't like it....Capitalism is not for many liberals.

No, I'm sorry, that isn't helpful as it's nothing more then a useless strawman. You see, I'm liberal and have no problems with WalMart make as much money as they choose. I also don't know any liberals who ascribe to your strawman (although I don't doubt some might).

Edit to add...

unions are a legitimate and legal way for employee's to organize their interaction with management. I support all legal efforts to unionize and support the employees should they decide to reject such organization efforts. It's their call.

I also believe in capitalism.

 

[Grammatron]

No, I'm sorry, that isn't helpful as it's nothing more then a useless strawman. You see, I'm liberal and have no problems with WalMart make as much money as they choose. I also don't know any liberals who ascribe to your strawman (although I don't doubt some might).

All the ones who vote to not allow Wal*Mart to open in some city ascribe to that "strawman."

 

[Anti_Hypeman]

I dont find PBS to be biased at all. I think the show was fair walmart execs got their time to talk. I came away from it not blaiming walmart but thinking that the American consumers descisions are going to come back and bite us in the buttocks in the future.

We will not buy American products so walmart sells us the sweat shop products we demand. If we wanted American products wlamart would sell them. A store has to sell what the consumers want to buy.

Part of the blame goes on Clinton for his trade deal with China. We export next to nothing to them and import everything. China does not compete fairly and can treat workers like animals. American products cannot compete on price and the bottom line is thats all the American consumer cares about. We dont give a crap if some 5 year old slave made that tea set as long as its cheap.

 

[Grammatron]

unions are a legitimate and legal way for employee's to organize their interaction with management. I support all legal efforts to unionize and support the employees should they decide to reject such organization efforts. It's their call.

No one is saying unions are not legal.

 

[DavidJames]

No one is saying unions are not legal.

and I never said anyone did.

 

[Manny]

For whatever it's worth, I have something of a third opinion. I hate Wal*Mart. Hatehatehate. I have a soft spot for small businesses and I decry the decline of personalized customer service and the debasement of quality goods which come with Wal*Mart. However, I also recognize that my personal opinion should not be the law of the land and therefore oppose unreasonable restrictions on their growth.

 

[DavidJames]

All the ones who vote to not allow Wal*Mart to open in some city ascribe to that "strawman."

I said I live in a town with people fighting WalMart and I can say unequivocally that you are wrong. There are many reasons people give for their opposition. They include working environment for their employees, belief in how new WalMart impacts existing local businesses, traffic concerns, and how the new WalMart will impact local housing.

But you are welcome to try and prove your claim that all of them support the strawman.

 

[specious_reasons]

(Specious)

I would say the biggest concern I have are the allegations of union-busting.

(New Ager)

I don't recall there being any right to have a union.

Wal-Mart has the business sense to know that a union will drive up prices and make it difficult to fire people. Who wants a union telling you how to run your business?

If Wal-Mart is such a terrible place, then why do so many people work there? And how come everytime a new one opens, thousands show up to apply for a job?

And by the way, PBS is a leftwing station. I doubt they will give Wal-Mart a fair shake. Capitalism is not for many liberals.

IANAL, but I think it's well established that people have the legal right to collectively bargain. There are laws against certain types of union-busting, and there are legal methods, although I couldn't tell you which practices Wal-Mart uses, and if they are illegal or just unsavory.

If those sweatshops in Asia are such terrible places to work, then why do so many people work there? Same question, same answer: because it seems to sucks less than other opportunities that the employees know about. This isn't surprising, nor does it automatically make it "good."

I see you didn't address the huge externality of Wal-Mart subsidizing its bottom line by farming its employee health care costs onto the Federal Government. I'm sure you're so happy about paying for that, right?

Oh, and PBS is a "network", local PBS affiliates are the "stations." Each are slightly different entities.

Edited to add: I'm a liberal, and I support capitalism. And I don't like WalMart because I find the stores unappealing. While living in a small town, I would go shopping there on occasion because other stores were much farther away, and sometimes, you just need some milk.

 

[Snide]

For whatever it's worth, I have something of a third opinion. I hate Wal*Mart. Hatehatehate. I have a soft spot for small businesses and I decry the decline of personalized customer service and the debasement of quality goods which come with Wal*Mart. However, I also recognize that my personal opinion should not be the law of the land and therefore oppose unreasonable restrictions on their growth.

Agreed. Maybe a couple fewer "hates" from me, but that's pretty much my take. I do shop at Walmart, just not as much as I would otherwise.

 

[Grammatron]

I said I live in a town with people fighting WalMart and I can say unequivocally that you are wrong. There are many reasons people give for their opposition.

Ok let's see them in the context of capitalism:

They include working environment for their employees

They abide by federal and state laws do they not? IF they do why is this even an issue?

, belief in how new WalMart impacts existing local businesses

Uhm so they are against capitalism then. They maintaining artificial market with higher local prices just by keeping Wal*Mart out.

, traffic concerns, and how the new WalMart will impact local housing.

Oh yeah, they care a lot when they build a Target in the very same place of the exactly same size.

But you are welcome to try and prove your claim that all of them support the strawman.

I don't have to when you do all the work for me.

 

[New Ager]

(David)

No, I'm sorry, that isn't helpful as it's nothing more then a useless strawman. You see, I'm liberal and have no problems with WalMart make as much money as they choose. I also don't know any liberals who ascribe to your strawman (although I don't doubt some might).

(New Ager)

Maryland passed a law forcing Wal-Mart to fund more health care for their employees. It was directed solely against Wal-Mart. And who were they? Liberals.

(David)

unions are a legitimate and legal way for employee's to organize their interaction with management. I support all legal efforts to unionize and support the employees should they decide to reject such organization efforts. It's their call.

(New Ager)

Unions drive up prices. They have outlived their usefulness. If one doesn't like the practices of their company, quit and find another job or become an entreprenuer. We have enough laws to protect employees on the books now.

Look at our public school system and how Unions have destroyed the quality of education in America.

(David)

I believe in capitalism.

(New Ager)

You can't totally believe in capitalism if you are for unions. They are anti-capitalistic.

 

[New Ager]

(Specious)

If those sweatshops in Asia are such terrible places to work, then why do so many people work there? Same question, same answer: because it seems to sucks less than other opportunities that the employees know about. This isn't surprising, nor does it automatically make it "good."

(New Ager)

Not a good point. Countries with sweatshops have no laws protecting employees from abuses. America does. Plus, we have more jobs opportunities here. Sweatshop countries have little or none.

Americans get jobs at Wal-Mart because they have opportunities and it's not really a bad place to work.

(Specious)

I see you didn't address the huge externality of Wal-Mart subsidizing its bottom line by farming its employee health care costs onto the Federal Government. I'm sure you're so happy about paying for that, right?

(New Ager)

I'd have to see it to address it.

(Specious)

Oh, and PBS is a "network", local PBS affiliates are the "stations." Each are slightly different entities.

(New Ager)

You're right. The network is liberal.

(Specious)

Edited to add: I'm a liberal, and I support capitalism. And I don't like WalMart because I find the stores unappealing.

(New Ager)

The stores are clean. Most products at good prices. What do you find unappealing? And what stores are appealing and why?

And I chuckle when people whine about Wal-Mart putting the mom and pop store out of business. Kind of like long ago complaining that those carmakers will put the horse and buggymakers out of business.

Life moves on.