I met my first moon-hoaxer Friday.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I picked up a copy of Phil Plait's "Bad Astronomy" and brought it to the new job to read during lunch break. One of the other trainees, a very pretty twenty-something girl who is also studying to be an IT Specialist, saw what I was reading.

"Oh!" she said cheerfully. "Is that a book on how the government faked the moon landings?"

"No, it's a book about public and media misconceptions about astronomy" I replied. "However it does devote a chapter to debunk those who claim the landings were a hoax."

"I don't believe that the moon landings happened," she said.
"I think it was faked."

"What evidence do you have that it was faked?" I asked.

"Well, there are a lot of people who didn't think it happened. I don't remember anything in particular, but I do remember one expert saying that the moon would be far too hot for anyone to have survived, even in space suits."

Ignoring the obvious question of just what "expert" she had quoted, I found the segement of the book regarding that claim and read, out loud, how the mission was planned to take place during the cooler portion of the lunar "day."

"Why you don't want to believe that the lunar landing didn't happen?" I asked.

"I just don't," she said. "I don't really have a political reason or anything. It just doesn't seem real."

(At that point she didn't seem as attractive to me anymore, not that I would have had a chance with her to begin with. Oh, she's a very nice girl, but for some reason this revelation lessened my overall opinion of her. It was very dissapointing.)

I was amazed. Here was a sweet, smart, sane, and sober woman who, despite all rational evidence to the contrary, couldn't accept the occurance of one of humanity's crowning achievments. She didn't have a vested interest like some of the moon hoaxers, and she wasn't insane... like some the the moon hoaxers. What could cause her to doubt the moon landings happened?

 

[Zep]

I picked up a copy of Phil Plait's "Bad Astronomy" and brought it to the new job to read during lunch break. One of the other trainees, a very pretty twenty-something girl who is also studying to be an IT Specialist, saw what I was reading.

"Oh!" she said cheerfully. "Is that a book on how the government faked the moon landings?"

"No, it's a book about public and media misconceptions about astronomy" I replied. "However it does devote a chapter to debunk those who claim the landings were a hoax."

"I don't believe that the moon landings happened," she said.
"I think it was faked."

"What evidence do you have that it was faked?" I asked.

"Well, there are a lot of people who didn't think it happened. I don't remember anything in particular, but I do remember one expert saying that the moon would be far too hot for anyone to have survived, even in space suits."

Ignoring the obvious question of just what "expert" she had quoted, I found the segement of the book regarding that claim and read, out loud, how the mission was planned to take place during the cooler portion of the lunar "day."

"Why you don't want to believe that the lunar landing didn't happen?" I asked.

"I just don't," she said. "I don't really have a political reason or anything. It just doesn't seem real."

(At that point she didn't seem as attractive to me anymore, not that I would have had a chance with her to begin with. Oh, she's a very nice girl, but for some reason this revelation lessened my overall opinion of her. It was very dissapointing.)

I was amazed. Here was a sweet, smart, sane, and sober woman who, despite all rational evidence to the contrary, couldn't accept the occurance of one of humanity's crowning achievments. She didn't have a vested interest like some of the moon hoaxers, and she wasn't insane... like some the the moon hoaxers. What could cause her to doubt the moon landings happened?

She was born after it all happened, so it was clearly not worth thinking about seriously. "Old school". I get the same sort of attitude from the Zeplette about 1970's music!

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Re: Re: I met my first moon-hoaxer Friday.

She was born after it all happened, so it was clearly not worth thinking about seriously. "Old school". I get the same sort of attitude from the Zeplette about 1970's music!

But I was born 2 years after the last moon mission, and I certainly believed it happened.

 

[Eos of the Eons]

Does she reject all the moon landings since the first? Does she think we are incapable?

She is simply believing false information because others do? I've got a nice swamp, er lovely lakeside property to sell her. I'll have gads of people to tell her how lovely it is.

 

[Zep]

Re: Re: Re: I met my first moon-hoaxer Friday.

But I was born 2 years after the last moon mission, and I certainly believed it happened.

You've been brainwashed, that's all.

Really, it's quite clear that the inability to use evidence, reason & logic is not directly related to intellegence quotient. There's many bright people who believe really dumb things!

In summary, what I gather from you is that her comment "It just doesn't seem real" is really her sole basic reason for not believing a well-documented and highly provable event did happen. I'd say she simply doesn't have the gumption to think for herself. Airhead?

However, this might be interesting. Try asking her if she feels the current Shuttle flights don't happen, or that there is no International Space Station, or that all those Cape Canaveral rocket launches are simply the collective illusion of millions of ordinary people. If she allows that those are real, ask her how the Shuttle astronauts can space-walk now but the moon astronauts couldn't then.

 

[c4ts]

The future is a hoax- IT NEVER HAPPENED!

Therefore the past is all a big fat lie. Aluminum foil hats are in this year, they protect you from the Communist mind control rays which hide their secret base on the moon...

 

[Eos of the Eons]

The future is a hoax- IT NEVER HAPPENED!

Therefore the past is all a big fat lie. Aluminum foil hats are in this year, they protect you from the Communist mind control rays which hide their secret base on the moon...

Eh, it IS a communist hoax! All those that don't believe man went to the moon are under their control right now! Call the men in the white shirts!
Can I have that girl's job if it's half decently interesting?

 

[Zep]

Aluminum foil hats are in this year...

Ooooo! Shiny!

 

[AWPrime]

"I just don't," she said. "I don't really have a political reason or anything. It just doesn't seem real."

(At that point she didn't seem as attractive to me anymore, not that I would have had a chance with her to begin with.

Yes, stupidity is a real turndown.

 

[treble_head]

I don't know if you should give up that easily, or at least I wouldn't. I could send you a tape from the 3rd season of Penn & Teller's Bullsh**. An episode deals with conspiracy theories, and the "Moon Hoax" is one of the 3 subjects addressed. Phillip Plait (The Bad Astronomer) is featured. It also shows one of the main players in the conspiracy theory, one "Rene", making a complete idiot of himself, much to my delight. At least it might be a start for someone to take learning as entertainment. The show has helped me many times in the past with people who dismiss me and my book larnin.

On an aside, anyone tell me where I can get one of those foil hats? Do they make them in Fedora? I think it'd look a pretty nice!!!

 

[richardm]

On an aside, anyone tell me where I can get one of those foil hats? Do they make them in Fedora? I think it'd look a pretty nice!!!

It is vitally important that you make your own. Otherwise, how can you be sure that it hasn't been... tampered with?

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Mark, try this interesting experiment: Pick another woo-woo topic similar to the moon landing hoax. UFOs? Chemtrails? Then casually bring up the topic with this woman. I'll be fascinated to hear what she says about it.

~~ Paul

 

[Nucular]

I was amazed. Here was a sweet, smart, sane, and sober woman who, despite all rational evidence to the contrary, couldn't accept the occurance of one of humanity's crowning achievments. She didn't have a vested interest like some of the moon hoaxers, and she wasn't insane... like some the the moon hoaxers. What could cause her to doubt the moon landings happened?

I don't claim to be sweet, smart, sane, sober, or a woman, but I've written before on these boards about how I was, at least, a sympathiser to the Moon Hoax Cause.

From what you've written, it sounds like her position was fairly close to what mine was.

Simply, really, that those documentaries only show one side of the story, and NASA haven't really gone out of their way to debunk it. We know governments lie, we know the US Government probably lie more than most, we know of the Space Race rivalry, etc., and we have people who appear very rational, and often apparently highly qualified, seemingly producing scientific arguments to back up their case.

And, one of the biggest things for me, NASA seem to point-blank refuse to answer any of their direct questions. It just doesn't look like pseudoscience, there's no obvious prevarication, ambiguity, wriggling out of difficult facts - because nobody is presenting the difficult facts.

If you want to actually know the other side of the story, you have to look for it, or happen across a colleague or friend who'll present it for you. Give her a break - this whole thing is a tricky one, because it doesn't require a complete world-view change to accept that humans haven't walked on the moon. There are no (obvious) uncomfortable corollaries involving afterlives, gods, ESP or parting with money, and the media coverage on this one has been especially biased.

But, the pleasant upshot of the fact that it doesn't require a complete world-view change to believe the hoax theory, means it doesn't require one to disbelieve it either! If she's anything like I was, if the specific questions are answered satisfactorily by someone who knows what they're talking about and doesn't have a vested interest, she'll easily accept it. And maybe learn the value of critical thinking, too.

"It doesn't seem real" is a perfectly reasonable position, based on the facts as presented to her. It's our job as people who think we know another side to the story, to present it as best we can, to let it seem a bit more real to her.

Regarding the "woos are unattractive" thing, I disagree. I think pure, closed minded, dim stick-in-the-mud hands-over-ears 'I feel sorry for you' type wooism is unattractive, and I think that cynical money-grabbing exploitative pseudo-wooism is incredibly unattractive. But to me, genuine disagreements are the most fun to talk about, and when I first met my girlfriend we disagreed about just about everything, from politics, to religion, to the paranormal - and got on like a house on fire. We still do disagree about a lot of things, but usually in a civilised manner.

Hey, don't rule her out just cos she hasn't read Phil Plait's book yet! Buy her a copy instead

 

[Jas]

Re: Re: I met my first moon-hoaxer Friday.

Yes, stupidity is a real turndown.

Totally agree (though I see Nucular's point, and it's true).

The worst is when you discover this at the beginning of a date, or worse (and this happened to me once), on the way up for a 3-day snowboarding trip. Then you're stuck with them for the next little while.

 

[Ashles]

Re: Re: Re: I met my first moon-hoaxer Friday.

Totally agree (though I see Nucular's point, and it's true).

The worst is when you discover this at the beginning of a date, or worse (and this happened to me once), on the way up for a 3-day snowboarding trip. Then you're stuck with them for the next little while.

It could be a positive, after all you already know they'll swallow anything.

That you tell them.

 

[Z]

I think we're all familiar with the standard 'never went to the moon' hoax - who here knows much about the 'we went to the moon and found glass ruins' hoax?

I was digging around, amusing myself with the various claims and counter-claims about the moon - and came across something weird: a 'moon hoax' debunking site that had a counter-theory instead: that we really did go to the moon, and that NASA WANTS us to have doubts about the trip - because they found glassy ruins on the Moon instead.

Anyone know about this nonsense?

 

[epepke]

It is vitally important that you make your own. Otherwise, how can you be sure that it hasn't been... tampered with?

Hah! I especially liked this comment:

Aluminum was originally named "alumium" by Sir Humphry Davy, who later changed it to "aluminum" (perhaps in an attempt to make it more Latinized since alumen is Latin for alum, the aluminum compound that the name is derived from). The British (and allied English speakers) shortly thereafter changed the name once more, this time to "aluminium" so that it would again match the pattern of most other elements (helium, sodium, etc.), while the North Americans eventually decided to keep the second, slightly more traditional name. I predict that North Americans will adopt the more regular "-ium" spelling by the year 2050, prompting the British to start calling it "alumininium". At that point debate can begin on changing "platinum" to "platinium"

 

[geni]

I think we're all familiar with the standard 'never went to the moon' hoax - who here knows much about the 'we went to the moon and found glass ruins' hoax?

I was digging around, amusing myself with the various claims and counter-claims about the moon - and came across something weird: a 'moon hoax' debunking site that had a counter-theory instead: that we really did go to the moon, and that NASA WANTS us to have doubts about the trip - because they found glassy ruins on the Moon instead.

Anyone know about this nonsense?

There are a few we went to the moon and found aliens theories. the problem is that the moon is about the worst place you can imagain to hide since there is not atmosphere to mess up satilite photos and no vegitation to hide under. We have seen a lot more of the surface of the moon that the bottom of the sea.

 

[Z]

There are a few we went to the moon and found aliens theories. the problem is that the moon is about the worst place you can imagain to hide since there is not atmosphere to mess up satilite photos and no vegitation to hide under. We have seen a lot more of the surface of the moon that the bottom of the sea.

I'm assuming very poor image quality, or sensitivity to radiation that caused these so-called glass temple images to look the way they do? Not very convincing that there's 'glass ruins' on the Moon.

 

[epepke]

Re: Re: I met my first moon-hoaxer Friday.

I don't claim to be sweet, smart, sane, sober, or a woman, but I've written before on these boards about how I was, at least, a sympathiser to the Moon Hoax Cause.

I'm glad that you recovered, but I don't get this:

"It doesn't seem real" is a perfectly reasonable position, based on the facts as presented to her. It's our job as people who think we know another side to the story, to present it as best we can, to let it seem a bit more real to her.

Ever since I was a little kid, I thought this was backward reasoning. 2001 came out a year before the first manned moon landing, and boy, does that model and set work ever seem real! It's brilliant. Totally convincing.

The video from the actual moon, in contrast, looks terrible. However, it looks exactly like what you'd really expect from a crappy frame-sequential camera that is actually on the moon, converted to NTSC probably with an optical process.