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I know why atheists are still curious

Iamme

Philosopher
Joined
Aug 5, 2003
Messages
6,215
Evolutionists have convinced the scientific community that not only does evolution occur, which is now pretty much indisputable...but that everything came from one thing.

If they did not believe this, this would then throw the entire theory into disarray...that there was not this forking off from ONE thing, but rather forkings off from many already different (little) things, in the beginning.

That said...let's suppose then that everything indeed came from one common speck.

Do you know what I see before me as I sit here typing? Pencils, with lead, eraser, writing with ink, paper, cardboard, shaped metal box, a telephone, eyeglasses, medication, matches, a nightlite, the computer, speakers, wire, plastic, rubber, glass, metal, a straw, chopsticks, an aluminum pop can, a soft mouse pad, a chair with fabric and wood, a flannel shirt with pretty colors and buttons, me, paint on a wall, a plaster wall, a clock, a stuffed toy, a rug, a cane, cigarettes, staples, empty wrappers, a comb, paper, notebooks, a plastic bag, a wallet/purse thingy,wood trim, paneling, a pail, cleaners, brush, dishes, utensils, stove...I give up. You get the picture.

I know. You are prepared to argue that number 1, not all these things evolved. That they are 'of the earth'. Yes and no. They TOO 'evolved', you see. Since everything came from the primordial Big Bang, in essence, EVERYthing evolved to be what it is today (by good fortune for us, eh?), either in raw material form or that of organisms. Which led to the list I gave... a mere but small visual of what I can see in the apartment, and I simply did not want to waste bandwidth adding to my point.

My point is, even the atheist knows that this stuff just could not have appeared, to be such benefit to man, for no reason or purpose or design behind it. That we just got lucky and have all this stuff, that grew out of some spec, out of the past. This is more illogical than believing a creator did it for some kind of benefit or experiment. Because...that is what WE do. WE design and create things. Therefore it's actually MORE easy and logical to believe some intelligent force out there did it, rather than it all doing it itself, for no reason, but happens to all be perfect and convenient for us, which goes WAY beyond us (an organizsm) simply utilizing what we have to to evolve to survive (like an oyster can).

Do you know that Jesus is quoted in the Bible as saying that he has another 'flock' to tend to? I have always wondered what he meant by that. Perhaps the entire universe is an experiment to see which solar system race of people can come up with discovering the most stuff in the least amount of time, and/or to see, if any civilization would be more God-like than another. This last paragraph is a little off-topic, but it popped into my head. (It has to do with the experiment comment I made, above)
 
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Evolutionists have convinced the scientific community that not only does evolution occur, which is now pretty much indisputable...but that everything came from one thing.

If they did not believe this, this would then throw the entire theory into disarray...that there was not this forking off from ONE thing, but rather forkings off from many already different (little) things, in the beginning.
Evolutionists are not some monolothic society bent on world domination. Belief has little do with it. Scientists go where the facts, logic and reason take them. You are right that if it were discovered that evolution or the big bang were shown to be wrong that it would have significant implications for science. So what? That is science. Science is prepared to be shown wrong. Science holds truths provisionally.

I don't have any personal interest in the rest of your musings but I wanted to be sure that this point not go unchallenged.
 
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RandFan,

My point was not even to argue evolution. But I actually said that we really need to start at the very beginning, with one little thing...which is what science currently believes. I wanted to merely be clear on this, because actually, this makes my claims even more spectacular, if you consider EVERYthing came from one thing.

Next, you are here in the religion forum reading posts which says to me that you must be curious, and have hope yet to ripen on the vine. :)

Next, you say you have no interest in the rest of my musings? Perhaps because it is so overwhelming that this all couldn't have just happened for our pleasure. Not just survival, but pleasure...that you don't know what to say?
 
Evolutionists have convinced the scientific community that not only does evolution occur, which is now pretty much indisputable...but that everything came from one thing.

If they did not believe this, this would then throw the entire theory into disarray...that there was not this forking off from ONE thing, but rather forkings off from many already different (little) things, in the beginning.

I believe that there are many scientists who do in fact believe in many different common ancestors.

That, IMO, is probably more rational view, but whatever the data shows. :)
 
RandFan,

My point was not even to argue evolution. But I actually said that we really need to start at the very beginning, with one little thing...which is what science currently believes. I wanted to merely be clear on this, because actually, this makes my claims even more spectacular, if you consider EVERYthing came from one thing.

Next, you are here in the religion forum reading posts which says to me that you must be curious, and have hope yet to ripen on the vine. :)

Next, you say you have no interest in the rest of my musings? Perhaps because it is so overwhelming that this all couldn't have just happened for our pleasure. Not just survival, but pleasure...that you don't know what to say?
I'm curious about many things Iamme. I have told you many times that I hold truths provisionally and therefore I'm more than happy to alter my world view when new evidence and or persuasive argument comes along. You should be careful to not draw any conclusions from my willingness to click on one of your threads. I find you interesting in a car accident sort of way. That you are immune (so far at least) to criticism has endeared you to me however I find your ability to reason less than sub par. I find your temperament refreshing. In short you are an enigma. A kinda Forest Gump of JREF (note, I said kinda).

That said, at the time that I first read the OP I found your point about evolutionists gratuitous. Now I'm not so sure.

Thanks,

RandFan
 
I'm curious about many things Iamme. I have told you many times that I hold truths provisionally and therefore I'm more than happy to alter my world view when new evidence and or persuasive argument comes along. You should be careful to not draw any conclusions from my willingness to click on one of your threads. I find you interesting in a car accident sort of way. That you are immune (so far at least) to criticism has endeared you to me however I find your ability to reason less than sub par. I find your temperament refreshing. In short you are an enigma. A kinda Forest Gump of JREF (note, I said kinda).

That said, at the time that I first read the OP I found your point about evolutionists gratuitous. Now I'm not so sure.

Thanks,

RandFan

Hmmm. Now I wonder how you'd feel about Forest Gump if he got in a car accident? :) (Couldn't resist. It's how my mind works.)
 
I believe that there are many scientists who do in fact believe in many different common ancestors.

That, IMO, is probably more rational view, but whatever the data shows. :)

What you really mean, is that you believe that the ancestry of the various species we have today, did not ALL come from JUST one specific ancestor. Right?
 
My point is, even the atheist knows that this stuff just could not have appeared, to be such benefit to man, for no reason or purpose or design behind it.

Wrong.

This universe is not "designed" to be of "benefit to man". I see not even an inkling of "purpose". Purpose and meaning are products of your brain. They are illusions you can't get past, apparently.

As for being curious, what atheists like me are curious about is the nature of the delusion itself, the phenomenon of religious belief, and why it continues to thrive despite being demonstrably false.

I have no more curiosity about the objects of religious devotion than I do about Santa's workshop or Valhalla.
 
Is someone mixing big bang theory into the theory of evolution again? The two have nothing to do with each other.
 
Wrong.

This universe is not "designed" to be of "benefit to man". I see not even an inkling of "purpose". Purpose and meaning are products of your brain. They are illusions you can't get past, apparently.

You must be in denial.

The signs are all about you. Out in the heavens is fire and cold. Yet here, on earth, where oysters live like they did millions of years ago, and do just fine without cars, cell phones, tv's, computers, movie theaters with buttery popcorn, and fancy car accessories, and digitally controlled/computerized homes with security systems, pools, fireplaces, home theaters... and Rolex watches, and Las Vegas and cruise lines, and water parks, and fireworks displays, et al... we JUST SO HAPPEN to have everything imaginable at our disposal, including the ability to graft and create new skin, venture into space and breaking the bonds of gravity...and of the atom in making the atomic bomb. I could go on and on. And you pay no heed to this. That there is no design to this?

If you are certain of this...let me ask you...HOW certain of you are of your claim, percentage-wise? And do you have scientific evidence that supports your view?
 
Wrong.


As for being curious, what atheists like me are curious about is the nature of the delusion itself, the phenomenon of religious belief, and why it continues to thrive despite being demonstrably false.

Demonstrably false? Go on. I'm listening.
 
Iamme said:
The signs are all about you. Out in the heavens is fire and cold. Yet here, on earth, where oysters live like they did millions of years ago, and do just fine without cars, cell phones, tv's, computers, movie theaters with buttery popcorn, and fancy car accessories, and digitally controlled/computerized homes with security systems, pools, fireplaces, home theaters... and Rolex watches, and Las Vegas and cruise lines, and water parks, and fireworks displays, et al... we JUST SO HAPPEN to have everything imaginable at our disposal, ...
Please, please, spare me from proof by "it JUST SO HAPPENs."

~~ Paul
 
RandFan,

My point was not even to argue evolution. But I actually said that we really need to start at the very beginning, with one little thing...which is what science currently believes. I wanted to merely be clear on this, because actually, this makes my claims even more spectacular, if you consider EVERYthing came from one thing.

.

Next, you are here in the religion forum reading posts which says to me that you must be curious, and have hope yet to ripen on the vine. :)

Next, you say you have no interest in the rest of my musings? Perhaps because it is so overwhelming that this all couldn't have just happened for our pleasure. Not just survival, but pleasure...that you don't know what to say?
You would need to give a lot more detail (not speculation: real detail ) on what you mean by "EVERYthing came from one thing." Don't think that's what scientists say except in ref. to the Big Bang and lots of things happened real quickly after that. Also, I have never (I know you weren't referring to me in quoted but I suspect I am not the only one this response will apply to) gone to a forum as such - I go to new posts and check out the ones that A)sound interesting, B)are started by people who have opinions/data I generally find useful and B) the exact opposite. After 5 pages or so of that, I go to my posts to check if any interesting (funny, useful, idiotic, rational) responses have shown up and need response in return. I don't think there are any forums I have not been in, but it is case by case. I hope you do not actually think you have ever said anything that is overwhelming to the slightest though. With no offense, you have not.
 
Do you know what I see before me as I sit here typing? Pencils, with lead, eraser, writing with ink, paper, cardboard, shaped metal box, a telephone, eyeglasses, medication, matches, a nightlite, the computer, speakers, wire, plastic, rubber, glass, metal, a straw, chopsticks, an aluminum pop can, a soft mouse pad, a chair with fabric and wood, a flannel shirt with pretty colors and buttons, me, paint on a wall, a plaster wall, a clock, a stuffed toy, a rug, a cane, cigarettes, staples, empty wrappers, a comb, paper, notebooks, a plastic bag, a wallet/purse thingy,wood trim, paneling, a pail, cleaners, brush, dishes, utensils, stove...I give up. You get the picture.

My point is, even the atheist knows that this stuff just could not have appeared, to be such benefit to man, for no reason or purpose or design behind it. That we just got lucky and have all this stuff...

I submit that all these things were invented and do have a purpose. Some of them have very interesting stories. But then, I'm not sure what this has to do with evolution. Just spend some time learning about all the goofy, backwards, or debilitating things about the human body. Humans have spent the last 150 years working to overcome our defects... biological diseases, genetic diseases, species defects, etc.

If humans have a designer then why were so many of us created with such poor eyesight?

Why can't we make our own vitamin C?
 
:confused: WTF? Don't follow... Does this have something to do with the anthropic principle? Or were you going someplace else?
 
You must be in denial.

Right...

The signs are all about you. Out in the heavens is fire and cold. Yet here, on earth, where oysters live like they did millions of years ago, and do just fine without cars, cell phones, tv's, computers, movie theaters with buttery popcorn, and fancy car accessories, and digitally controlled/computerized homes with security systems, pools, fireplaces, home theaters... and Rolex watches, and Las Vegas and cruise lines, and water parks, and fireworks displays, et al... we JUST SO HAPPEN to have everything imaginable at our disposal, including the ability to graft and create new skin, venture into space and breaking the bonds of gravity...and of the atom in making the atomic bomb. I could go on and on. And you pay no heed to this. That there is no design to this?

What are you saying here? Are you saying that the purpose of the universe is to give humans the ability to do engineering work?

Or is the purpose of the universe to have digital controls, popcorn and atomic bombs? :boggled:

Either way, I am almost certain that you are glossing over all the very hard work of scientists, engineers, doctors, inventors, technicians, tradespeople, etc. who have given a lot of effort to bring you these things

Is it Amazing that humans have split the atom? Astounding even?

Yes.

Did the CreatorTM's purpose have anything to do with it?

Probably not.
 
"nothing" is perhaps wishful and dramatic.

You are quite simply wrong. The two are nothing alike.

The big bang theory attempts to describe how the universe may have come into its present state.

Evolution describes the process by which natural selection, on planet Earth, adapts life forms to their environments.
 
You are quite simply wrong. The two are nothing alike.

If you actually read what was being discussed, I didn't say there were alike. I said that saying they "have nothing to do with each other at all" is wrong.

Obviosuly if there is no universe there is no environment for life to evolve in.
 

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