I, For One, Welcome Our New Dolphin Overlords.

LostAngeles

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Dolphins observed using tools.

A group of dolphins living off the coast of Australia apparently teach their offspring to protect their snouts with sponges while foraging for food in the sea floor.

Researchers say it appears to be a cultural behavior passed on from mother to daughter, a first for animals of this type, although such learning has been seen in other species.

The dolphins, living in Shark Bay, Western Australia, use conically shaped whole sponges that they tear off the bottom, said Michael Kruetzen, lead author of a report on the dolphins in Tuesday's issue of Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.

"Cultural evolution, including tool use, is not only found in humans and our closest relatives, the primates, but also in animals that are evolutionally quite distant from us. This convergent evolution is what is so fascinating," said Kruetzen.

Researchers suspect the sponges help the foraging dolphins avoid getting stung by stonefish and other critters that hide in the sandy sea bottom, just as a gardener might wear gloves to protect the hands.

Kruetzen and colleagues analyzed 13 "spongers" and 172 "non-spongers" and concluded that the practice seems to be passed along family lines, primarily from mothers to daughters.

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Dear Creationists,

Please look up Homo Habilis, read this story, and then please revisit your claim of "evolution has never been directly observed." I think we just might be seeing it here.
 
I doubt this have an impact on the IDers.

Now, if the "spongers" and "non-spongers" stopped being able to interbreed...
 
Hot dolphin-chick (non-sponger): "Hey, look at the sponge-geek... Like I would ever, like, DO IT with that mamas-boy... AS IF...."

Ririon
 
IllegalArgument said:
I doubt this have an impact on the IDers.

Now, if the "spongers" and "non-spongers" stopped being able to interbreed...
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We could do this artificially, but would it count?
 
[Seinfeld] Do they have to prove they're sponge-worthy? [/seinfeld]
 
Art Vandelay said:
I don't see how this is convergent evolution, or in fact evolution at all.
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Developing the ability to use tools and then passing that knowledge along is cultural evolution. Much like when Homo Habilis starting using tools and that ability was passed on and further developed, our teeth, for example, changed. Apparently at a certain point, culture begins to influence biology. I'd tell you what that point is, but I only had Introduction to Physical Anthropology.
 
LostAngeles said:
Developing the ability to use tools and then passing that knowledge along is cultural evolution. Much like when Homo Habilis starting using tools and that ability was passed on and further developed, our teeth, for example, changed. Apparently at a certain point, culture begins to influence biology. I'd tell you what that point is, but I only had Introduction to Physical Anthropology.
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Maybe if the sponges filtered out a parasite which would give the sponge users a reproductive advantage. Or that all or just the best available food became localed in very sharp coral beds. Over the long haul, it might have an biological effect, or maybe all the dolphins would start using sponges.
 
LostAngeles said:
Developing the ability to use tools and then passing that knowledge along is cultural evolution.
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You're not going to win over any creationists by engaging in equivocation.
 
I am skeptical about the report that dolphins know how to use sponge to protect their nose base on a short and simple CNN report.

Be too keen to imagine a dolphin to be too clever, and soon you'll have hordes of psychic dolphin-whisperers over the world.

It only shows one picture of a dolphin with a sponge.
It could very well be a photo of a dolphin consuming the sponge.
 
Okay, the spongers are more intelligent, and maybe more geeky. They've reached the same level of the evolutionary ladder as us. Meaning, the geeks will survive better and pass on their intelligence since they can get food without the risks posed to non-spongers. Once you reach the geekiness step on the ladder, where do you go from there to evolve into a different species? You don't need to change the body much since you're in a successful form already. Is this it? The end of the road? Just smarter dolphins from now on?

Humans and dolphins will no longer need to evolve. We're perfect! Well, unless the world changes drastically all a sudden...but we have these brains that will allow us to survive without having to see millions of our kind dwindle down to the most successful...right?

Okay, I'm sick, I'm babbling, and only half ways trying to make a point :p :p
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Once you reach the geekiness step on the ladder, where do you go from there to evolve into a different species? You don't need to change the body much since you're in a successful form already.
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Every creature that exists, from the smallest bacterium to the blue whale, is "in a successful form already." Otherwise it wouldn't be around in the first place.

"Success" isn't a plateau that you hit and then stop.

Imagine, if you will, a group of proto-chimpanzees sitting around feeling pretty good about themselves because they had just invented tools. Now that they've got tools, where do they go from there to evolve into a different species? If these protochimps had been asked to envision the future ten million years from now, they'd probably not mention anything that looks like H. sapiens. And they'd be right. Chimps are as successful in their environment as humans are in ours, or they wouldn't be there. (And in point of fact, humans are pretty bad at doing the things that chimps do.)
 
new drkitten said:
Every creature that exists, from the smallest bacterium to the blue whale, is "in a successful form already." Otherwise it wouldn't be around in the first place.

"Success" isn't a plateau that you hit and then stop.

Imagine, if you will, a group of proto-chimpanzees sitting around feeling pretty good about themselves because they had just invented tools. Now that they've got tools, where do they go from there to evolve into a different species? If these protochimps had been asked to envision the future ten million years from now, they'd probably not mention anything that looks like H. sapiens. And they'd be right. Chimps are as successful in their environment as humans are in ours, or they wouldn't be there. (And in point of fact, humans are pretty bad at doing the things that chimps do.)
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this is what I get for posting addle brained with a cold and not making a point.

Those species do reach a plateau until something causes them to have to evolve into a new species (ice age, whatever). You won't see humans or dolphins being replaced by a more successful form any time soon. Look at an Octopus or a crodile or a shark (or cockroach). They've been successful in their forms for a very long time. I wasn't trying to same some other species won't evolve because one is successful as it is.

And yes, they are successful in their forms in their ways in their environments. Just try putting a human where an octopus lives.

Using tools and such are a sign of intelligence. Intelligence is very important to the success of a species. Using it can help overcome what you may lack in your present form. Humans don't need big teeth or claws for protection-we can use guns and weapons. An octopus will use something to help bash open a crab. To evolve to a point where you start using tools can cause a plateau stage in a species' physical development. You can overcome stressors with your brain without having to use "brawn". Your species will survive some hardship without most of it dying off and only surviving because of some trait left in the survivors.

This doesn't stop evolution in its tracks. We just don't see any big physical changes anymore. Instead we may see increased diversification within the species, but no change into a new species from the present form dying off because it lacks a successful set of traits the new species survived with.

Once we or other animals reach the "geek" stage we all stand a better chance of surviving in our present forms.
 
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