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Hypnosis

Undesired Walrus

Penultimate Amazing
Undesired Walrus
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
11,691
I just watched that new Derren Brown show and my credulity was tested when he just walked up behind his test subject, put his hands on his head and he fell into a state of unconsciousness or something like that.

Is this really possible and if so how is it done?
 
As I posted in the other thread about the Apocalypse, I have found myself discussing this with my colleagues, who insist that this kind of hypnosis is possible and that I am a "fundamentalist skeptic" for not believing it.

By the way, the youtube link has been removed for copyright violation; UK people can see the whole episode on the C4 website, don't know if people from outside the UK can,

I find it really unlikely that the young man would fall into a hypnotic state just by having a hand placed on his shoulder, and that they would get him to change his clothing etc with him being completely compliant, and not remembering anything in the morning. I know there is some debate whether medical hypnosis is "real" and a usefull tool, but I believe that there is general consensus that stage hypnosis is just entertainment and playing along.

Brown posted a FAQ on his website, where he tackles the hypnosis bit as well. My colleague sent me the link to the website, saying "he explains how it's done here". My thinking is that this is how he SAYS it's done, not how it's actually done.

So in his explanation he says that he could hypnotise him because he did not start from scratch, he only returned him to the hypnotic state having hypnotised him during the auditions. To me this is a clear example of the kind of thing a magician would say to fool his audience, and not a plausible real-life explanation.

I've googled a bit about hypnosis and hypnosis myths, but most sources seem to be hypnotherapists websites - is anyone aware of any other useful sources on hypnosis, whether books or web links? Has anyone else got any thoughts on this programme? Can we even discuss how it could have been done or is that against forum rules (revealing tricks)?
 
Tanja said:
Brown posted a FAQ on his website, where he tackles the hypnosis bit as well. My colleague sent me the link to the website, saying "he explains how it's done here". My thinking is that this is how he SAYS it's done, not how it's actually done.

So in his explanation he says that he could hypnotise him because he did not start from scratch, he only returned him to the hypnotic state having hypnotised him during the auditions. To me this is a clear example of the kind of thing a magician would say to fool his audience, and not a plausible real-life explanation.
Click to expand...

It seems to be Brown's claim that after he hypnotizes them, he places them in a temporary not-really-awake state and sends them on their way about their lives so that in the future he can come up to them and "put them back to sleep".

But wasn't the claim made at the beginning of the show that Brown had never met this person before? Did he hypnotize the man and place him in "suspended-hypnotism" remotely somehow?

Yeah, it's just baloney.
 
Checkmite said:
It seems to be Brown's claim that after he hypnotizes them, he places them in a temporary not-really-awake state and sends them on their way about their lives so that in the future he can come up to them and "put them back to sleep".

But wasn't the claim made at the beginning of the show that Brown had never met this person before? Did he hypnotize the man and place him in "suspended-hypnotism" remotely somehow?

Yeah, it's just baloney.
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It's exactly that temporary not-really-awake state claim that gets my BS detectors going. Even if I accept that the guy was hypnotised during the auditions several weeks before, and that he was generally suggestible and easy to hypnotise, I don't believe that the hypnotist can yield some kind of permanent power over him, enabling the guy to be hypnotised again, in a second, on the hypnotist's whim, weeks later - surely that doesn't exist?
 
If you want to understand hypnosis (as I see it) - Prof Irving Kirsch is your man. His studies on placebo are in tune with my thinking.
What Brown alleges he did to this subject could work. Supposing he followed a robust pre-selection process, he would be able to hone in on the most suggestible applicants. Using these people, 'post hypnotic suggestion' could be triggered by pressure on certain body points. However, my instincts tell me Brown probably fudged this.
 
Le Jab said:
What Brown alleges he did to this subject could work. Supposing he followed a robust pre-selection process, he would be able to hone in on the most suggestible applicants. Using these people, 'post hypnotic suggestion' could be triggered by pressure on certain body points.
Click to expand...

Like Tanja I have difficulty believing this; but even if this were true, how long can this effect last? A couple hours? A day? A week? Can the hypnotist come up to the subject months or a year later and tap him on the shoulder and get an instant reaction?
 
Le Jab said:
If you want to understand hypnosis (as I see it) - Prof Irving Kirsch is your man. His studies on placebo are in tune with my thinking.
What Brown alleges he did to this subject could work. Supposing he followed a robust pre-selection process, he would be able to hone in on the most suggestible applicants. Using these people, 'post hypnotic suggestion' could be triggered by pressure on certain body points. However, my instincts tell me Brown probably fudged this.
Click to expand...

My guess is: reaction to a hypnotic cue is somewhat dependent on how intellectually and/or emotionally significant the cue and its social/environmental context is to the recipient. For some people, if a hypnotist with a certain amount of fame approaches them with a promise of hypnotism on stage (later), that gesture alone could be enough to trigger a Pavlovian-like effect. It's just an agreement ahead of time that's formed between hypnotist and subject; and a pact between the subject and his/her brain to comply with suggestions from a recent memory to get a social reward.

In thinking about hypnotic cues within the context of the theory above, you can take something like PTSD. One little hint from your surroundings - a flickering light, a certain sound at a particular time of day, etc., and your limbic system is activated: your body flinches or you feel a sudden surge of fear. This can happen even before you intellectually realize you're physically and emotionally reacting to that memory. You just know you feel bad and you want to drink, or sleep or escape somehow. For me, there've been times where I didn't realize I'd been reacting to my memory until I sat down and talked to someone about how crappy I was suddenly feeling. It's a not so subtle argument for "subconscious thought".

A psychological treatment modality called Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (empirically tested over decades), helps patients become more aware of specific frightening thoughts that come up with PTSD-related anxiety and depression; thoughts that normally go by so quickly they're not unlike subliminal messages that trigger emotions that seem to come "out of nowhere", or to be there for "no reason". ... And ppl w/PTSD are often so suggestible that all you have to do is place a single item near them, related to their troubling memory, and they'll physically react before they realize they're responding to association. This has happened to me before too, decades following the original event.

That people can be hypnotized isn't really in question for me. And someone reacting to a recent suggestion doesn't surprise me either. I maintain that, the more significant the cue is to the subject, the more likely s/he is to react to that cue at a later time. For some, complying with a "pre-programmed" cue means getting to faint or drop in front of people on a stage later for 15 min.s of fame, which justifies recall and obedience to said cue IMO. For some unfortunate people, a single negative event can later lead the mind to accept incongruous suggestions like, "You're about to die" in the absence of clear danger.
 
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Checkmite said:
It seems to be Brown's claim that after he hypnotizes them, he places them in a temporary not-really-awake state and sends them on their way about their lives so that in the future he can come up to them and "put them back to sleep".
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's silly. But one way to seriously test claims about hypnosis as it regards sleep-phase claims, is to administer an electroencephalogram. In fact, there have been studies of this nature.
 
I actually went to a Hypno-Quack once just to see if any of this stuff was real.
For $80.00 CND in 1992, I was placed in a "Hypnotic State",
sitting with my eyes closed, (ok, no big deal there)
and was given the post hypnotic suggestion that I had agreed upon:
"you will read more often and for longer periods of time"...
well to make a short story long...
all I got was an $80.00 hole in my bank account and the had bitter pill of being euchred!

If there is real honest to goodness hypnosis in this world, I have yet to see it.
It might be, but I haven't seen any evidence of it.
 
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At a very basic and boring level: if you've done enough audience prep and found a [very!] suitable candidate, and then done a some extra prep with them, they're likely to be just as.. "suitable" in a few weeks' time than they were initially. Especially in this case where he'd auditioned to be a part of something already. Plus, it's TV.

I know there was controversy about this show later, but I personally don't think the guy was an actor or a prepared stooge, just a typical subject that went along with everything. Again, it's TV... I'd be interested to hear from someone in video production to give us an idea of how easy it is to shoot a big show like that without retakes of the important scenes, how much footage was likely to have been edited out, etc.

I like DB as a magician, but I haven't enjoyed his last few TV 'experiments' too much, and I really don't understand why stage hypnosis is interesting or entertaining to people.

ps. to the OP, if you thought that was bad, did you see the scene towards the end where it's done over a cellphone!?!
 
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