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"Humans are inherently evil"

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Something I've heard quite often from believers is that humans are, in the words of the last person I heard it from, "inherently evil". Others have put it in other ways - "humans are wretched sinners", "humanity's fruits are rotten", and so on, but it's always the same basic principle: that we're bad people. This belief is often accompanied by other equally self-hating stances, such as that we deserve all the evil we get in this world, that God is infinitely just because He doesn't kill us or or condemn us to Hell, or that we need Him to watch over us 24/7 and threaten us with natural disasters and threats of hellfire to keep us in line.

I find this philosophy both wrong and incredibly sad. It's in my eyes the belief of the downtrodden and oppressed - the subjects of a brutal dictator, the spouse of an abusive person, or, well, the playthings of an evil god. It must wreck havoc on the self-esteem of whoever believes in it, especially kids. It's used to excuse oppressive and unjust policies and approaches to parenting that I find abhorrent.

Humans are good, is my stance. We have, like many other species, an instinctive urge to do good to one another and to punish evildoers. The majority of us aren't rapists, murderers, war mongers or 'evil' in other ways, and those who are nearly always end up this way as a result of illnesses, defects (such as in the case of psychopaths) or a bad upbringing or environment 'corrupting' them. At the risk of sounding too Scandinavian here ("aww, the poor wife-beater, he must have had a terrible childhood":rolleyes:), it's no coincidence that most serious criminals have a history of poverty, neglect, abuse, etc.

If humans are inherently evil, how come certain countries such as Iceland can have ridiculously mild laws and a lack of religion and still have very low crime rates? Surely if we're inherently evil and all that's keeping us from going out there to do evil is the fear of prison and Hell, Norway, Canada and Iceland would be mafia-run slums of robbery, abuse and neglect. They're not, in fact secular nations with mild laws top the Human Development Index (as an aside, I'm fully aware that countries with more crime need stricter laws than we do - this isn't a "the US is evil and everyone should be nice to the bad guys!11seveneleven" post).

Is this dog a Christian? Somehow I doubt it very much.


Humans are good. This isn't a "deep philosophical question" - it's basic observable reality on par with the knowledge that the Earth is round.
 
Humans are a diverse group. Gregarious suggests cooperative behaviors develop. Competition still exists. Look at Goodall's study of chimpanzees for insight into how our behaviors were selected.

Then there are those with mutant genes and early childhood trauma such as, no adult to bond to, which can have a large impact on behavior.
 
Humans are good, is my stance. We have, like many other species, an instinctive urge to do good to one another and to punish evildoers.

I would disagree. Many studies have shown us that Humans naturally create ingroups (family members, people of the same race, people of the same gender, etc.) of people who we easily empathize with, and outgroups, who we have great difficulty empathizing with. I think it would be more accurate to say that we have an instinctive urge to do good to those in our ingroup and instinctive fear of and abhorrence for, evildoers.

This all makes perfect sense in the context of the environment in which us Humans evolved, where our communities were small and isolated. In that environment, it makes sense for the organism to develop an irrational loyalty and respect for those in the community (the ingroup) because those same people usually shared many of the same genes and it is in the great interest of the community (the genes of the members of the community) to have members who are willing to sacrifice themselves for the group.

Unfortunately, those very same traits give us the natural tendency to create divisions where there are none and then kill each other based on them.

Now, I think it is obvious that in most cases, it is nurture rather than nature which determines what a person grows up to be, but I would never say that Humans are mostly good.
 
Hm, I guess it depends on one's religious background and environment. In my case the religious message I always get is that human beings are inherently good and worthy, but they cloud this with "sins" or what have you.

I don't believe in objective values of good or evil in the first place, so I say human being are neither good nor evil.
 
I don't think humans are inherently evil,but I'm pretty sure that on some basic level we will do just about anything to preserve our own existance.
 
Meh. Good and Evil are inherently arbitrary, artificial terms used to rationalize an individual's likes or dislikes of others.
 
The idea that humans are inherently evil is not necessarily a religious one.

Plenty of secular philosophers have argued so, from Thomas Hobbes to the "South Park" creators.

You could both make the case that humans are actually amazingly good at heart and amazingly bad at heart.

The world would seem to support both those theories equally well.
 
Erm, I was taught at school (Catholic Catechism) that we are made in God's image.

So, if we are 'inherently evil', then God is... :confused:
 
The Catholic view:

The way God made us was good and pure. In God's image.

We were made evil when Eve and Adam ate the apple of knowledge and became knowledgable about sin and evil, along with everything else.

That's the meaning of original sin, which all people to this day have at birth.
 
The world of microscopic beasties is more violent and hellish than our mammalian world.

But no one accuses them of being evil.

(its not fair)
 
Someone has to do it. . .

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"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun."
 
I always wondered about the song "Amazing Grace." Why is it historically so popular? Do people really relate?

"Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost
But now am found
Was blind but now I see"

Do you think you were really a wretch?

This reminds me of the time I went to church with my sister-in-law. The preacher kept going on about how life is awful and miserable, and when you are at the edge of dispair Jesus can save you.

All I could think is, where is this life that is so awful? I look around me at this congregation that is mostly young (35 - 50) with young kids all over the place, they live in big houses in the suburbs, and life is miserable? Man, what is the good life?

Instead of telling people how bad they have it, wouldn't it be better to remind people how fortunate they are, and how good they have things? Of course, it's harder to manipulate them with that.
 
Humans are both inherently good and inherently evil, at the same time. It's just a question of which motivations win out in a particular situation. Of course, good and evil are concepts invented by humans anyway.
 
Good and evil are purely subjective terms anyway. I think man is both good and evil in fairly even amounts, for generally accepted definitions of those terms. But it's a useful tool to manipulate people into coming to church, if you drill into them that they've got this horrible sin that needs washing away. You can't scare them into church the way they used to, since we know that God isn't going to smite evildoers with lightning every day... gotta go with the 'you're going to hell if you don't pop in this Sunday' angle.
 
No, I think like all mammals, humans are inherently aggressive. We have a basic instinct for survival and the continuation of the species. These instincts, have evolved in interesting ways that sometimes become very violent, selfish, prejudiced, and arrogant.

Whats the solution? I have no idea.
 
I always wondered about the song "Amazing Grace." Why is it historically so popular? Do people really relate?

"Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost
But now am found
Was blind but now I see"

Do you think you were really a wretch?

This reminds me of the time I went to church with my sister-in-law. The preacher kept going on about how life is awful and miserable, and when you are at the edge of dispair Jesus can save you.

All I could think is, where is this life that is so awful? I look around me at this congregation that is mostly young (35 - 50) with young kids all over the place, they live in big houses in the suburbs, and life is miserable? Man, what is the good life?

Instead of telling people how bad they have it, wouldn't it be better to remind people how fortunate they are, and how good they have things? Of course, it's harder to manipulate them with that.

Actually, the author of Amazing Grace (John Newton) was kind of a wretch:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazing_Grace

But humans are just inherently human.
 
We're toxic, too, according to much medical woo. Festering cesspools of toxicity. There's barely enough herbs and treatments to handle our inner filth. If jesus can't get it, maybe a trip to a spa in Sedona will help.
 
When I was a young adult, my ex-husband would sometimes accuse me of "acting out of character." I wasn't able then to put my finger on why that felt as wrong as a ton of bricks on my head, but I think I may have a better idea now.

The comment seems to strike me in stone, and makes me sound...artificial. I don't have character, I play one. It limits me, in a very uncomfortable way.

One thing being a human has taught me is that we are all capable of anything. I've noticed when I say that in conversation ("I never thought he was capable of that!" a friend says, and I reply, "Everyone is potentially capable of anything"), I get shocked looks and gasps of surprise. Which I then return.

You don't know that? You haven't, yourself, ever done or said anything unexpected?

We are neither good nor evil, but capable. Best way I know to put it.
 

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