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How to Integrate Muslims / Arabs

Skeptic

Banned
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Jul 25, 2001
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18,312
According to the Wall Street Journal, here are statistics about Arabs and Muslims in America (taken seperately since most Arabs in America are not Muslims and most Muslims not Arab):

ARABS:

1). 24% Muslim.
2). The rest almost invariably Christian.
3). Median household income: $52,000 (one of the highest)
4). Intermarriage rate (i.e., with non-Arab Americans): an astonishing 75%, far higher than most other groups.

MUSLIMS:

1). About 26% Arabs.
2). About 33% South Asian, 20% black Americans.
3). Contrary to popular belief, vast majority legally in the US.
4). intermarriage rate with non-Muslims: 21% (i.e., the same as the American general one of 22% who marry others of a different fate).
5). 64% foreign born--i.e., one can expect intermarriage rate to increase with time.
6). Four out of five earning more than $25,000 a year, one in three, more than $75,000.
7). They "typical" American Muslim head-of-household is a professional worker who owns stocks.
8). 82% registered to vote.
9). 65% favor lowering the income tax.
10). "Typical" regular mosque-goer is a 34-year-old married professional.

In sum, both Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans are behaving in the same way all other immigrant groups behave: they work hard, make money, intermarry with non-Arabs and non-Muslims Americans, and participate fully in civic issues such as voting, etc.

Could there be an American-raised bin Laden? Yes, of course--it only takes one nut. And there are some Muslim "ghettoes" and Saudi-funded "Hate Mosques". But they are atypical of Muslims and Arabs in America as a whole.

If this data is accurate, America does not have a "Muslims problem" any more than it has, say, an "Irish problem" with Irish-Americans becoming potential IRA fighters.

Strange, isn't it, how this is happeneing in the country the bien pensants are convinced is horribly "Islamophobic", "Arabphobic", "racist", etc., etc., etc.--which supposedly leads to "alienation" by Muslims and Arabs--while the ghettoes of alienated Muslim thugs and radicals are growing like mushrooms in the "understanding", "multicultural", "non-racist" Europe?
 
arab/muslim terrorists tend to be very intergrated. How do you think they fly below radar.

Its all but impossible for a "death to america" flag burning rabble rouser to pull off a terror plot. Everyones already watching him lik a hawk.
 
Skeptic said:
Strange, isn't it, how this is happeneing in the country the bien pensants are convinced is horribly "Islamophobic", "Arabphobic", "racist", etc., etc., etc.--which supposedly leads to "alienation" by Muslims and Arabs--while the ghettoes of alienated Muslim thugs and radicals are growing like mushrooms in the "understanding", "multicultural", "non-racist" Europe?
Erm, shouldn't you provide similar statistics for the "understanding", "multicultural", "non-racist" European countries if you want to compare something?
 
Re: Re: How to Integrate Muslims / Arabs

Bjorn said:
Erm, shouldn't you provide similar statistics for the "understanding", "multicultural", "non-racist" European countries if you want to compare something?

Indeed I should; I had in mind two recent threads on just that subject which have tons of evidence about the situation in England:

Muslim Attitude Towards Britian

and

Moderate Islam vs. "Moderate" Islam

...for example.
 
Skeptic said:
According to the Wall Street Journal, here are statistics about Arabs and Muslims in America (taken seperately since most Arabs in America are not Muslims and most Muslims not Arab):

ARABS:

1). 24% Muslim.
2). The rest almost invariably Christian.
3). Median household income: $52,000 (one of the highest)
4). Intermarriage rate (i.e., with non-Arab Americans): an astonishing 75%, far higher than most other groups.

MUSLIMS:

1). About 26% Arabs.
2). About 33% South Asian, 20% black Americans.
3). Contrary to popular belief, vast majority legally in the US.
4). intermarriage rate with non-Muslims: 21% (i.e., the same as the American general one of 22% who marry others of a different fate).
5). 64% foreign born--i.e., one can expect intermarriage rate to increase with time.
6). Four out of five earning more than $25,000 a year, one in three, more than $75,000.
7). They "typical" American Muslim head-of-household is a professional worker who owns stocks.
8). 82% registered to vote.
9). 65% favor lowering the income tax.
10). "Typical" regular mosque-goer is a 34-year-old married professional.

In sum, both Arab-Americans and Muslim-Americans are behaving in the same way all other immigrant groups behave: they work hard, make money, intermarry with non-Arabs and non-Muslims Americans, and participate fully in civic issues such as voting, etc.

Could there be an American-raised bin Laden? Yes, of course--it only takes one nut. And there are some Muslim "ghettoes" and Saudi-funded "Hate Mosques". But they are atypical of Muslims and Arabs in America as a whole.

If this data is accurate, America does not have a "Muslims problem" any more than it has, say, an "Irish problem" with Irish-Americans becoming potential IRA fighters.

Strange, isn't it, how this is happeneing in the country the bien pensants are convinced is horribly "Islamophobic", "Arabphobic", "racist", etc., etc., etc.--which supposedly leads to "alienation" by Muslims and Arabs--while the ghettoes of alienated Muslim thugs and radicals are growing like mushrooms in the "understanding", "multicultural", "non-racist" Europe?

Can you please cite the Wall Street Journal article? This seems to be evidence of the futility of "racially profiling" Arabs.
 
I don't think those threads prove much, but if we assume that European Arabs and European Muslims are less "integrated" into society, it might just be a factor of geographic convenience. If someone lives in the Middle East and wishes to immigrate to a Western country, it is much easier to move to a European country than it is to move to the United States. Thus, the only people who immigrate from the Middle East to the United States are people who are willing to "go the extra mile," figuratively and literally.

(That argument applies less well to Muslims though.)
 
America has traditionally been for people who want to integrate. It was largely founded and colonized by people who were trying to get away from multiculturalism in its various forms. It seemed to work pretty well for a while but has been breaking down in recent years, ironically at the behest of much the same crowd that go apoplectic if you dare to criticize any Muslim.
 
Re: Re: Re: How to Integrate Muslims / Arabs

Skeptic said:
Indeed I should; I had in mind two recent threads on just that subject which have tons of evidence about the situation in England:

Muslim Attitude Towards Britian

and

Moderate Islam vs. "Moderate" Islam

...for example.
But aren't you still comparing apples and oranges?

You are on one hand quoting how many American muslims are making an average income, or voting, on the other hand comparing that to the percentage of muslims in the UK who feel little loyalty towards the country or none at all.

I couldn't find similar statistics for Norway as those you posted for the US, but from the little I found it is clear that second generation Norwegian-Pakistanis are much more like Norwegians than their parents when it comes to education, income, owning their own home and so on. On average, they are also the most law-abiding people in Norway.

Pakistanis are the largest muslim immigrant group in Norway.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: How to Integrate Muslims / Arabs

Bjorn said:
But aren't you still comparing apples and oranges?

You are on one hand quoting how many American muslims are making an average income, or voting, on the other hand comparing that to the percentage of muslims in the UK who feel little loyalty towards the country or none at all.

I couldn't find similar statistics for Norway as those you posted for the US, but from the little I found it is clear that second generation Norwegian-Pakistanis are much more like Norwegians than their parents when it comes to education, income, owning their own home and so on. On average, they are also the most law-abiding people in Norway.

Pakistanis are the largest muslim immigrant group in Norway.

Anecdotes don´t prove anything, I know, but the most fanatical Trekkie I have ever met was a second generation German-Pakistani...

I don´t know what the situation is in other European countries, but the largest group of Muslim immgrants in Germany - the Turkish - were never actually supposed to stay here. When Germany had a shortage of working-age people in the 60´s, guest workers from (mostly) Italy, Turkey and Greece were invited to Germany. AFAIK the original plan was to have them work here for some years, maybe a decade or so, and then send them home. However, most of them staid, brought their families here, and spent the rest of their lives in Germany. Still, there has been no attempt at all to integrate them - in fact, it seems that the official inofficial national policy towards immigrants is to assume that they´ll leave sooner or later, and treat them accordingly. The immigrants aren´t dumb, of course, and they notice that. Under these circumstances, frankly, I cannot blame anyone who decides not to integrate themselves into German society.
 

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