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How Europe fails its young

CBL4

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This weeks Economist has a 15 page article about higher education. I have only read a bit of it but I thought I would mention it in case anyone wanted to buy this weeks copy.

In addition, there is an editorial about "How Europe fails its young."
ince the second world war Europe has progressively surrendered its lead in higher education to the United States. America boasts 17 of the world's top 20 universities [none are in continental Europe - CBL], according to a widely used global ranking by the Shanghai Jiao Tong University. American universities currently employ 70% of the world's Nobel prize-winners, 30% of the world's output of articles on science and engineering, and 44% of the most frequently cited articles. No wonder developing countries now look to America rather than Europe for a model for higher education.

Why have European universities declined so precipitously in recent decades? And what can be done to restore them to their former glory? The answer to the first question lies in the role of the state. American universities get their funding from a variety of different sources, not just government but also philanthropists, businesses and, of course, the students themselves. European ones are largely state-funded. The constraints on state funding mean that European governments force universities to “process” more and more students without giving them the necessary cash—and respond to the universities' complaints by trying to micromanage them. Inevitably, quality has eroded. Yet, as the American model shows, people are prepared to pay for good higher education, because they know they will benefit from it: that's why America spends twice as much of its GDP on higher education as Europe does.

The answer to the second question is to set universities free from the state. Free universities to run their internal affairs: how can French universities, for example, compete for talent with their American rivals when professors are civil servants? And free them to charge fees for their services—including, most importantly, student fees.
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=4370590

CBL
 
The problem with this is that the non state uni in the uk isn't exactly topping the leauge tables.
 
One could question the Shanghai Jiao Tong University ranking method. But I think it also has to do with other factors than the role of the state and who funds the universities (and how much money is poured into the system). There's an entire philosophy of higher education that differs from country to country.
 
The problem with this is that the non state uni in the uk isn't exactly topping the leauge tables
I will take your word for that but it is not a inherent item for private universities. The Ivy League schools which are all private university scored very high. You may dispute the specifics of the study but no one doubts that Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Penn, etc are top flight schools.

The two question to be asked are
1) Why are private schools successful in the US and not elsewhere?
2) Why are American research schools better than the rest of the world? The state of California as many schools in the top 6 as the rest of the world has in the top 30.

CBL
 
Originally posted by Jorghnassen
There's an entire philosophy of higher education that differs from country to country.
I am sure there is but the reality is that the US has by a landslide the best research universities in the world. The US primary and secondary education is lacking but the best and brightest in the world tend to want to go American universities. They are expensive and have lots of flaws but they do the best research.

CBL
 
CBL4 said:
I will take your word for that but it is not a inherent item for private universities. The Ivy League schools which are all private university scored very high. You may dispute the specifics of the study but no one doubts that Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Penn, etc are top flight schools.
Not strictly true. Cornell, at least, is a hybrid public-private university. The Ag school, Human Ecology, and ILR are all public colleges within Cornell. Good way of getting an Ivy League education on the cheap.

I'm skeptical of college rankings in general.
 
The big reason American universities are strong in the sciences is because of foreign graduate students. There was a gigantic panic when the Patriot Act went into force because it was keeping out the students from Asia and other places. Without foreigners doing research there would be no programs in some schools. I live in a backwater smallish town with one university and the engineering and sciences are all foreign. It's like that everywhere in American schools.

My acquaintance is from Bangladesh and went to the University of Texas which is one of the top 10 computer and science programs. He said it was so shocking to the foreign students that the classes had maybe 20 foreigners and 2 Americans. And no females at all.

One interesting thing he pointed out was that it's not the genetics of Chinese - if a Chinese student stays in America and has children their children will do just as badly at sciences and math as every other American. The causes are in the American culture, which has always been anti-intellectual and does not value education very highly. Why do Americans keep failing the international tests all the time? It's because they (we) care about money and having fun and that's about it.

Americans are very bad at teaching math and science in the earlier years and the students cannot compete with anyone coming out of Japan or Korea or China. All the international tests have shown that for years.
 
...snip...

American universities currently employ 70% of the world's Nobel prize-winners, 30% of the world's output of articles on science and engineering, and 44% of the most frequently cited articles. No wonder developing countries now look to America rather than Europe for a model for higher education.

...snip...

Out of curiosity, any idea of the nationality of these Nobel prize? Also shouldn’t the measure of a University be about how well it educates?
 
The big reason American universities are strong in the sciences is because of foreign graduate students
This is certainly one of the big reason but that sort of begs the question of why are so many foreign graduate students in American universities. I understand the feeling of working in a high tech company and being one of the minority of American bord engineers.

I believe that one of the major factors is that in the US, professors and universities are allowed to get rich when they invent a new technology. This gives universities the incentive to pay top dollar for the best and brightest and also gives the best and brightest incentive to work at America University. In addition, there is great cooperation between industry, venture capitalists and university.

CBL
 
Originally posted by Darat
Also shouldn’t the measure of a University be about how well it educates?
Clearly that is part of an education system. Since foreigner like to come to the US for grad school, clearly our grad school programs are doing well. Undergrad is probably more debatable.

If we are talking about top flight research institutions, research is quite important too.

CBL
 
jay gw said:
Why do Americans keep failing the international tests all the time? It's because they (we) care about money and having fun and that's about it.

Americans are very bad at teaching math and science in the earlier years and the students cannot compete with anyone coming out of Japan or Korea or China. All the international tests have shown that for years.
Evidence please. This discussion is about universities. The only test results I've seen compare scores of secondary school students (US high school or equivalent). And the "failure" in those tests is somewhat misleading.

True, the US students' relative ranking is lower than many other countries, but the raw scores were not that far apart. If you come in last in a 1K race, but were only 1 second behind first, than you did well despite the last place finish...

And the tests did not take into account differences in emphasis. It has been suggested that the US secondary schools place more emphasis on a broad exposure to all areas of a subject rather than narrowly focusing on a few details, and that the tests were more geared to the narrow perspective.

So, evidence, please, that US "students cannot compete with anyone coming out of Japan or Korea or China".
 
CBL4 said:
I am sure there is but the reality is that the US has by a landslide the best research universities in the world. The US primary and secondary education is lacking but the best and brightest in the world tend to want to go American universities. They are expensive and have lots of flaws but they do the best research.

CBL

But that's exactly where I was going with my comment (I didn't have time to elaborate earlier). The relations between (grad) students, faculty and administration varies from culture to culture, but it is an important factor when it comes to research. The way the material is taught matters as well, and so does the perception of what is important research. The American system in that sense is much more conductive to research. Sure it might be pricey in theory, but if you're a good grad student, they'll waive your fees and give you financial aid.
 
Darat said:
Out of curiosity, any idea of the nationality of these Nobel prize? Also shouldn’t the measure of a University be about how well it educates?

I'm not sure how things work on your side of the pond, but over here, it is not uncommon for individual universities to specialize in teaching or research. It is also common for people to go to a teaching university for undergraduate work and a research university for graduate work.

This is true of state universities as well as private universities. The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, for example, has the oldest Computer Science program in the country but still (I believe) offers only graduate classes. It also varies from department to department within a university.
 

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