How does one get the message out to lurkers?

jj

Penultimate Amazing
J
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In specific, how does one argue, work with, etc, in order to sway the lurkers and those unwilling to speak up to the side of science and reason?

I have some definite opinions and can point to successes, but I'm not going to salt the discussion yet, let's see what others think.
 
Hello,

I lurked these forums for about six months before deciding to register.

No matter what one's views may be, I think for some people it is a big jump from lurking to participating in a forum.

I joined for three reasons:

1-I happen agree with alot of the views of skeptics.
2-To hone my critical thinking skillls and debating skills.
3-To make a positive contribution, either by making a valid point, a new idea to explore, or even to make someone else laugh with a joke.

from jj
"how does one argue, work with, etc, in order to sway the lurkers and those unwilling to speak up to the side of science and reason?"

These are my opinions based on my general observations of this forum:

Don't be arrogant, I've noticed some posters tend to be rather arrogant at times, I think it can only do skeptics a disservice when trying to present a valid argument in a condascending arrogant way.

Try and keep arguments or explanations as simple as possible for clearer understanding. I realize this may not always be possible.

Humor is a great tool to get people's attention, and to hold their attention as well. Makes a potentially great ice breaker and I think encourages people to participate.

The only other thing that comes to mind right now is that some people just can't be swayed, no matter how much logic and persuasiveness you try. I know a few people who will not give up their beliefs or even try to see things from another point of view. I believe Randi refers to these types of people as the "Unsinkable Rubber Ducks".

Hope this helps.
 
Lurking doesn't necessarily mean that you don't agree with the skeptical viewpoint. I lurked for quite awhile, enjoyed reading people's comments, just never felt like I had anything to contribute. There are a lot of bright people on this forum with a vast amount of knowledge of different areas. I've forgotten more than I ever learned and so didn't feel like I had much to say. But eventually I delurked. I'm not a good debator but I definately side with the skeptics.
 
jj said:
In specific, how does one argue, work with, etc, in order to sway the lurkers and those unwilling to speak up to the side of science and reason?

I have some definite opinions and can point to successes, but I'm not going to salt the discussion yet, let's see what others think.
Click to expand...

I don't know about other lurkers, but for me it is mostly a matter of timing. Since I can't be on here as much as I'd like, usually by the time I get to a topic, someone has already said what I wanted to or would have said. And I'm not much for post slutting as you can tell by my post count.

It is possible to stand up for reason and science in places other than a internet BB.
 
I've been lurking since March last year. I only lurk because I'm not in a position to share anything, more of a student. Find this place VERY educational, fantastic. Feel sorry for anyone with no computer who is missing out on the debates/info provided.

Sharon
 
jj said:
In specific, how does one argue, work with, etc, in order to sway the lurkers and those unwilling to speak up to the side of science and reason?

I have some definite opinions and can point to successes, but I'm not going to salt the discussion yet, let's see what others think.
Click to expand...

I've been mulling over this today. The bit "and those unwilling to speak up to the side of science and reason" is raising my hackles. As another poster has stated, quite a few members are aggressive and often patronising when addressing issues. It sounds like all you want is for people to (metophorically) stand up and wave a flag for skepticism.

The most enlightening discussions I have seen on this board have certainly not needed my two cents to further exploration or explanation. I wish I had the time, knowledge base, erudition, and writing skills that half of the members of this board seem to have.

Those I have been involved in have mostly featured courteous interchanges, skeptics and non alike.
 
I have a split personality and, therefore, find myself spending long periods lurking and then long periods posting pointless comments.

Rather like this one in fact.
 
jj said:
In specific, how does one argue, work with, etc, in order to sway the lurkers and those unwilling to speak up to the side of science and reason?

I have some definite opinions and can point to successes, but I'm not going to salt the discussion yet, let's see what others think.
Click to expand...

Just ridicule and mock the woo woos all the time.

No need for anything to change then!
 
Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

Interesting Ian said:
Just ridicule and mock the woo woos all the time.

No need for anything to change then!
Click to expand...

Ian, you changed your avator. I also didn't recognize you.
 
Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

bluess said:
I've been mulling over this today. The bit "and those unwilling to speak up to the side of science and reason"
Click to expand...

The reason I said "Lurkers and" is because I hoped, perhaps incorrectly, not to lump together lurkers (who can and will lurk for any reason they choose) and those who, for whatever reason, don't want to speak up.

I did not intend for the later phrase to be pejoritive, perhaps it was badly phrased, rather I was thinking of people who (perhaps sensibly) didn't want to stick their fingers into the doorjamb right before somebody slammed it, more or less.
 
Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

Interesting Ian said:
Just ridicule and mock the woo woos all the time.


Somehow, Ian, that's not how I think we get our message across. At least I hope not.


No need for anything to change then!
Click to expand...

What don't you like about Huntsman's avatar, anyhow?
 
Re: Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

jj said:
What don't you like about Huntsman's avatar, anyhow?
Click to expand...

This brings to mind something else that may cause lurkers to lurk. After a forum has been around a while, there is a certain culture with a history. Members say things to each other that only other members "get." They have their own lingo and in jokes. It probably makes a lurker feel more like an outsider.

Even if a lurker lurks for a long period, it would be awkward for them to finally join in a conversation and speak as an insider might, making references to in jokes they are familiar with.

The first forum I ever joined was a paranormal forum. I had lurked there for quite a while. After a while, I couldn't take it any more and joined in the conversation. There were a few skeptics there, but not enough. The problem with being a newbie is one always risks making a cultural faux pas, and I made plenty in the beginning.

To some people that fear of making a faux pas can be very real. There can also be a very real fear of sounding stupid.

It's like I was saying to someone in another topic about overweight women who are afraid to go to the gym. They are afraid everyone will make fun of them, covertly or overtly. They don't understand that most dedicated people in the gym are happy to see them.

Perceptions of oneself of how one appears to others can be so misleading.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

Luke T. said:
To some people that fear of making a faux pas can be very real. There can also be a very real fear of sounding stupid.

...

Perceptions of oneself of how one appears to others can be so misleading.
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This is indeed part of what was running through my head, however I must say that I am not necessarily concerned with "outing" lurkers, rather I wonder how we can best present ourselves to people who are genuinely curious about things like psychics, faith healers, audio varnishes, and the like, and come here to lurk to see what's up.
 
Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

Interesting Ian said:
Just ridicule and mock the woo woos all the time.

No need for anything to change then!
Click to expand...

The haikus are what encouraged me to participate more.

;)
 
I like what Luke wrote. It can be daunting jumping in. After all, what you type can linger around you like skunk aftershave.
 
I've lurked on and off for quite a few months now, and been moved to post rarely. What will eventually drive me away once again, as it did before, is the continuous arguing between a few regulars. After a while it just gets on my nerves and I disappear for a few months.
 
Re: Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

jzs said:
The haikus are what encouraged me to participate more.

;)
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Gr8wight said:
I've lurked on and off for quite a few months now, and been moved to post rarely. What will eventually drive me away once again, as it did before, is the continuous arguing between a few regulars. After a while it just gets on my nerves and I disappear for a few months.
Click to expand...

Hmm.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How does one get the message out to lurkers?

jj said:
This is indeed part of what was running through my head, however I must say that I am not necessarily concerned with "outing" lurkers, rather I wonder how we can best present ourselves to people who are genuinely curious about things like psychics, faith healers, audio varnishes, and the like, and come here to lurk to see what's up.
Click to expand...

Along the lines of what I was saying is that we should make it very plain that everyone is welcome, whether they are an astrophysicist with an IQ of 485 or a parking lot attendant. A sticky topic welcoming newcomers isn't enough.

Ugly arguments between members is certainly off-putting. I've been saying that myself for quite a long time, and it is the sole reason I completely avoid the Religion and Philosophy section on here and have recently decided to take a hiatus from the Politics section. I don't even lurk in those sections now. :)
 
I lurked for a few months before I got the courage up to have a go at posting. Since then I have gone through several 'rites of passage' as a forum member.

My first few posts were awkward and tentative, kind of like trying to start a conversation with a stranger at a party. I'd never posted on any forum before JREF.

Then at some stage you say something useful or interesting and maybe you get a few people agreeing or giving advice. This felt good to me and encouraged me to be a little more active and honest.

Then at some stage you get an aggressive or insulting post from a member. I found this a little distressing in the beginning but I soon realised that this is not much different from real-life anyway. A thick skin is needed here, especially in Politics!

I'm still a relative newb compared to some of the seniors around here but I like to think I have improved my debating and critical thinking skills by participating.

I would encourage members to go easy on lurkers who have just de-cloaked. Their first posts may not honestly reflect their true potential.
 
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