How does giving children with ADD "legal speed" help them?

Questioninggeller

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I was thinking about this the other day, maybe someone can explain this to me. A child who has attention deficit disorder (ADD) is supposed take drugs like Ritalin, which is much like methamphetamine. Now I have never had any drugs like Cocaine or methamphetamine, but I have read that it is “nervous system stimulant, both medically and illicitly,” much like the drugs taken for ADD. Also that amphetamines release “high levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine” (http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/methamphetamine.html), which in turn “high doses of methamphetamine damage neuron cell-endings.”

Now why is it acceptable to give this stuff to kids? Does it make them dependent on drugs, and hazardous for the child’s developing brain?
 
Yup, it's not exactly like eating your Wheaties to say the least. Worse yet, many psychotropic drugs are being "prescribed" by schoolteachers who find their students to be too unruly. Most children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD probably suffer from no dysfunction at all.
 
You may want to look at this and this.

I'm sure someone who understands the neuropharmacology of this can probably explain it properly, but there are perfectly good reasons why this apparent paradox is nevertheless rational medicine.

The fact that a drug may be overprescribed or a condition overdiagnosed isn't necessarily an argument that the drug is useless or the condition non-existent.

Rolfe.
 
It is very important in ADD that the diagnosis not be based solely upon preformance in school , and that it not be used to treat a condition at home.

Ten years ago theyw ere saying that depression was caused in overactivity in one part of the brain and that schizophrenia was caused by underactivity in another part of the brain.

There a re systems that do specific tasks in the brain, there are areas that regulate other areas.

"Attention" is a very complex ability that requires the ability to filter out huge amounts of perception and focus and a limited set of sensations. If the area that allows a person to do that is under active , and giving the stimulant to the child activates that area, then the child can pay attention. The weird thing is that it is a paradoxical effect, it helps the kids remain calmer and to focus.
 
I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone adds this one to the list of things that "prove" homoeopathy (like cures like)!

Rolfe.
 
Dancing David said:
It is very important in ADD that the diagnosis not be based solely upon preformance in school , and that it not be used to treat a condition at home.....
Click to expand...

It is also not prescribed by the school, but by a physician.

I remember when a classmate of my oldest was going throuh the diagnosis... at some point they went through a month where ritalin was given for 2 weeks... and for another two week a placebo was given. Neither the parent nor the school knew which weeks. It was from there they determined if there was any effect. (I do not remember the outcome... but he seems to have done well now that he is in high school).

editted for clarity
 
True story: My third-grade teacher told my parents that I had ADD. They laughed at her, and took me to a real psychiatrist to prove the teacher wrong. It worked.
 
Another thing I thought about: Medications given to kids tend to have completely different effects on kids.

I was warned that when my son was on phenobarbitol that instead of making him sleepy, it could actually make him a bit hyper (or as an infant, irritable... since the dosage was never increased the amount he had as a 30 lb. toddler was much less a factor than when he was a 7 lb. infant).
 
Stimulants help you concentrate. They make it FUN to concentrate. That's why they give stimulants to kids.

Note that it is now "Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder". They used to call it just "hyperactivity" (which really does exist...... I've seen it). What they're "treating" with ritalin, et al., is the "AD" component.

A hyperactive kid runs when other kids walk, then runs back to join the other kids, and screams "I WANT BREAD!!!!" at lunch.

An attention deficit kid is just bored by his teacher, and probably isn't being sufficiently challenged.
 
On the whole, ADD and ADHD seem to me to be excuses for superfluous medication. I've as yet to have been convinced otherwise to the slightest. Besides, isn't being a daydreamer and having an active imagination supposed to be a good thing? Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. It's better that we make everybody into zombies to keep them from becoming too incorrigible.

All contrarians must be made retarded. We cannot let the infidels win! :hit:
 
Heres a funny story.

A good friend just started working at an emotional and behaviour disorder school here in the east end of London. (What these kids get up to is unreal.)

Anyway, the other day they have a meeting about one particularly problematic 11 yr old -his mother is there, doctors, schoolteachers, headmaster etc. The kid is sitting there looking through pages of reports about himslef, somewhat tuned out from the conversation about him going on. Then at one point he looks up a little puzzled and says "Do I have D.O.B.?"

Everyone struggled to keep a straight face - the thing is theres a crazy number of acronyms for every possible disorder these kids have, even the teachers struggle to keep abreast of them. So now, whenever the teachers in that school encounter a kid and theyre not sure what problems they have they just say "Oh they have DOB..."
 
Batman Jr. said:
On the whole, ADD and ADHD seem to me to be excuses for superfluous medication. I've as yet to have been convinced otherwise to the slightest. Besides, isn't being a daydreamer and having an active imagination supposed to be a good thing? Oh, yeah. I almost forgot. It's better that we make everybody into zombies to keep them from becoming too incorrigible.

All contrarians must be made retarded. We cannot let the infidels win! :hit:
Click to expand...

I hope that I can help to change your mind on this some, having been diagnosed with this as a child. When ADHD is properly diagnosed, it is far more significant than a kid with an overactive imagination that gets a bit hyper. When you have the disorder for real, the child is not able to control their behavior or attention, even in the face of any reasonable discipline or consequences.

My parents did not jump straight to medication with me. It was a last resort--they tried everything first, timeouts, loss of privileges, diet control, reward systems, even a period of giving me spankings when I misbehaved, which still did not change my behavior except to make me traumatically afraid of my stepfather. I still remember those two weeks, 27 years later.

Then they went ahead and tried the Ritalin. First my mother went and researched the disorder until she knew more about it than most doctors. But the response was immediate. My behavior improved dramatically, and my performance in school reached my potential.

Contrary to what you say, it did not turn me into a zombie at all. In fact, I felt like it opened up whole new areas in my personality. I was able to concentrate on difficult tasks for the first time, and able to restrain myself from doing foolish things just because the impulse had popped into my head.

The impulses and imagination remained... merely under my control instead of controlling me.

I am hoping you can become aware of this issue, as a problem that afflicts some children that is different than just needing more attention or more skillful parenting. I wanted for neither and the problem was there still.

---

On a side note, those following this thread will want to be careful which research sources they choose. Avoid any material by something called the "CCHR," as that is a front for Scientology's anti-Psychiatry propaganda. (They're still torqued that psychiatrists poo-poohed at "Dianetics") There is a LOT of anti-ritalin material out there that ultimately comes from these guys.
 
gnome said:


I hope that I can help to change your mind on this some, having been diagnosed with this as a child. When ADHD is properly diagnosed, it is far more significant than a kid with an overactive imagination that gets a bit hyper. When you have the disorder for real, the child is not able to control their behavior or attention, even in the face of any reasonable discipline or consequences.

My parents did not jump straight to medication with me. It was a last resort--they tried everything first, timeouts, loss of privileges, diet control, reward systems, even a period of giving me spankings when I misbehaved, which still did not change my behavior except to make me traumatically afraid of my stepfather. I still remember those two weeks, 27 years later.

Then they went ahead and tried the Ritalin. First my mother went and researched the disorder until she knew more about it than most doctors. But the response was immediate. My behavior improved dramatically, and my performance in school reached my potential.

Contrary to what you say, it did not turn me into a zombie at all. In fact, I felt like it opened up whole new areas in my personality. I was able to concentrate on difficult tasks for the first time, and able to restrain myself from doing foolish things just because the impulse had popped into my head.

The impulses and imagination remained... merely under my control instead of controlling me.

I am hoping you can become aware of this issue, as a problem that afflicts some children that is different than just needing more attention or more skillful parenting. I wanted for neither and the problem was there still.

---

On a side note, those following this thread will want to be careful which research sources they choose. Avoid any material by something called the "CCHR," as that is a front for Scientology's anti-Psychiatry propaganda. (They're still torqued that psychiatrists poo-poohed at "Dianetics") There is a LOT of anti-ritalin material out there that ultimately comes from these guys.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry if I came off as being a little too harsh. I'm a little touchy about it as well because a psychologist once wanted to refer my mother to an MD to get me a prescription for Prozac. My control over my mental faculties was in no way in dearth. I just had better things to think about (my mother didn't take his advice, btw). I understand though that it may very well have been different in your case, so I apologize again.
 
gnome said:


I hope that I can help to change your mind on this some, having been diagnosed with this as a child. When ADHD is properly diagnosed, it is far more significant than a kid with an overactive imagination that gets a bit hyper. When you have the disorder for real, the child is not able to control their behavior or attention, even in the face of any reasonable discipline or consequences.

My parents did not jump straight to medication with me. It was a last resort--they tried everything first, timeouts, loss of privileges, diet control, reward systems, even a period of giving me spankings when I misbehaved, which still did not change my behavior except to make me traumatically afraid of my stepfather. I still remember those two weeks, 27 years later.

Then they went ahead and tried the Ritalin. First my mother went and researched the disorder until she knew more about it than most doctors. But the response was immediate. My behavior improved dramatically, and my performance in school reached my potential.

Contrary to what you say, it did not turn me into a zombie at all. In fact, I felt like it opened up whole new areas in my personality. I was able to concentrate on difficult tasks for the first time, and able to restrain myself from doing foolish things just because the impulse had popped into my head.

The impulses and imagination remained... merely under my control instead of controlling me.

I am hoping you can become aware of this issue, as a problem that afflicts some children that is different than just needing more attention or more skillful parenting. I wanted for neither and the problem was there still.
Click to expand...


Of course the word "stepfather" is a big red flag, but I won't attempt to address those issues.

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that there was something organically wrong with you, but......

I note that the "treatments" that didn't work were all punishments, and the "treatment" that did work was a reward (trust me, speed is a reward from the body's point of view). There may be a lesson there.
 
I think most of the areas here have been covered, but I'd like to add my opinion in as a teacher.

ADHD (and ADD, which lacks is the same but lacks the hyperactivity component) is indeed over diagnosed. In addition, many teachers and parents (and more importantly, students themselves) love to fall back on the term for a student who is unruly. I've heard numerous occasions students say 'I can't help it, I've got ADHD'. It's fairly obvious much of the time that they simply like the excuse and they no more have ADHD than I do.

I've had ADHD students who have medical certification for the trait (I prefer to call it a trait rather than a condition) and who behave in a way that is very indicative of the trait. They are often polite, inquisitive students who find it difficult to operate in a conventional classroom environment.

Occasionally, simply redesigning the lessons can help. Numerous short, fast activities with constructivist (i.e., they play with something to work out the answers for themselves) approaches can work most of the time. However, for many classes, this is impractical to achieve.

Medication can produce wonders. As Gnome said, it does not produce mindless zombies. It can give a student the peace of mind to sit for a longer period and contemplate their work without the need for them to move about. Not all medications are the same, and not all suit all ADHD students.

The key, again, is education on the subject. Many comments made about the topic are out of ignorance.

Athon
 
TeaBag420 said:



Of course the word "stepfather" is a big red flag, but I won't attempt to address those issues.

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that there was something organically wrong with you, but......

I note that the "treatments" that didn't work were all punishments, and the "treatment" that did work was a reward (trust me, speed is a reward from the body's point of view). There may be a lesson there.
Click to expand...

That is incorrect. Gnome mentions loss of privileges (negative reinforcement) and reward systems, in addition to punishments.
 
biglee said:


That is incorrect. Gnome mentions loss of privileges (negative reinforcement) and reward systems, in addition to punishments.
Click to expand...

Nope. Loss of privileges is technically termed "negative punishment" or "respose cost".
Negative reinforcement involves escaping from aversive stimulation.
 
Jeff Corey said:


Nope. Loss of privileges is technically termed "negative punishment" or "respose cost".
Negative reinforcement involves escaping from aversive stimulation.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected.
 
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