How do you guys do it?

[slant]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

I imagine the responses I’m going to get will be along the lines of living in the moment or to immerse oneself with the people and things one cares for. However, I don’t really think this is dealing with these sorts of thoughts; it just seems like shooing them away whenever they pop into your head.

I’ve been meaning to ask this question for some time, but I’ve hesitated because I thought many of you would somehow get defensive or offended over your choice of lifestyle, but I would genuinely like to know how you all deal with this side-effect (assuming it occurs at all) of not believing in any grand meaning to life.

I’d appreciate any earnest replies to this question.

Or smart-ass ones, whichever you think are appropriate.

 

[Pahansiri]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

I imagine the responses I’m going to get will be along the lines of living in the moment or to immerse oneself with the people and things one cares for. However, I don’t really think this is dealing with these sorts of thoughts; it just seems like shooing them away whenever they pop into your head.

I’ve been meaning to ask this question for some time, but I’ve hesitated because I thought many of you would somehow get defensive or offended over your choice of lifestyle, but I would genuinely like to know how you all deal with this side-effect (assuming it occurs at all) of not believing in any grand meaning to life.

I’d appreciate any earnest replies to this question.

Or smart-ass ones, whichever you think are appropriate.

a teddy bear or blanket never protected a child no matter how thighly they heald on to it believing it would give then safty.

 

[TragicMonkey]

It just means that life is what we make it. You can lead a pointless existence if you want to, or you can give it a point by doing something. It's your choice. Without a deity to judge you, you have to judge yourself. To be sure, history and other people will also be judging you, but what are they going to do to you that would matter when you're dead? Not a thing.

Why would life have to have a meaning in order to be good? The pointlessness of art doesn't make it less beautiful.

 

[pgwenthold]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

Who says it is meaningless?

I dispute the premise of your entire post.

In fact, from my perspective, I think that if you need Goddaddy to give you purpose, then I feel very sorry for you.

My answer: I didn't ask to be born, but I was. This is the only life I have. I have to make it worthwhile. Worthwhile for me and everyone.

I've noted how common it is for religious people to always talk about how desperate and terrible life can be. I went to the church my sister-in-law attends, and all the preacher could talk about is how Je-sus can help you through the struggles of life, and how when things seem hopeless, turn to God, etc, etc.

I just can't relate. I'm happy. I have a great wife, a usually pretty good dog, a good job, great friends, and a wonderful family. No, things aren't always perfect, but in the grand scheme, man, I'm happy. And I don't need religion to make it that way.

No, I don't intend or expect to live forever, either mortally or in heaven or whereever. But history teaches us that we are all important parts of the system. Even if I were to know that 8 century North American natives are dead and gone and not living with God in heaven, does that mean their lives were meaningless? That fact that I even talk about them goes to show that they did not live meaningless lives, even from my perspective, much less from theirs.

Your question, "How do I deal with knowing that everything is meaningless" is completely nonsensical to me. Meaning is what we make of it.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Who is it that does really care about the meaning of the universe? I don't mean who is it that pops on message boards to talk about it or hangs out in diners at 3 in the morning shooting the bull with friends. I mean who really, truly cares? When I wake up in the morning, I think gotta go to work, get that stack of paperwork done I put off last Friday, leftover chili tonight for dinner, should be good, are the cats fed? ok, good, maybe I'll stop at the bookstore on my lunchbreak, pick up that book Piscivore recommended, oh, need to leave early to get gas and smokes, now, where'd I put my keys... That the universe has no ultimate purpose never crosses my mind in daily life. Why would it? Do theists stop in their daily grind every once in a while to think about how purposeful and meaningful everything is?

Yes, it's about living in the moment and surrounding myself with things and people I care about. If you cannot accept that answer, I'm sorry. I have no other.

 

[Pahansiri]

However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

" ultimately meaningless universe"? If your sole belief of something i.e. the universe

" ultimately meaningless universe"? If your sole belief of something i.e. the universe can only be meaningful if there is a God and a reward for acting well then you never really acted well in a meaningful way.

If there is a God or none or a billion of them is irrelevant. If there is it seems to do nothing to help the suffering of the world, 24-26,000 starve to death each day, birth defects, wars, drought, anger hatred ( by some).

If proof of a God came today what would change?

My life is lead in a way to be kind to all beings, to have loving kindness, respect and compassion for all beings not caring if there are Gods or an after life of any form including my Buddhist belief of rebirth. It is just irrelevant.

A moral loving act is empty if it is driven by the desire for a gift.


I would say who is more moral or leads a more meaningful life then a materialist atheist who is kind and giving and even gives up his/her life to safe another?

 

[Upchurch]

However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

The problem for me is that I rarely think in terms of absolutes anymore. To be worried that the universe is ultimately meaningless is to think in terms of absolute meaning, which I don't. For me, anyway, ultimate meaning is as illusionary as absolute space and time and, thus, not an item for concern.

In terms of specific meanings, however, I think there are plenty of those. As a member of the human species, I consider the meaning of life is to be successful and procreate. As moral being in society, I consider the meaning of life is to do good (or, at least, not harm). As a being capable of intellegence, I consider the meaning of life is to develop that intellegence. So on and so forth.

but I would genuinely like to know how you all deal with this side-effect (assuming it occurs at all) of not believing in any grand meaning to life.

By not believing in a grand meaning to life, one is freed from any consequences of it. Not to get too silly, but do you believe that there are monsters under your closet? If not, then you do not suffer any consequences of not believing in them, do you? Or to twist the analogy a bit, do you believe there are angels in your closet? If not, do you suffer any consequences of not believe in them?

Likewise, I don't feel any regret at there not being an ultimate meaning to the universe. It is hard to feel that something is missing when you don't think it was ever there.

 

[pgwenthold]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). I ask because many of the posters here seem to love extolling the virtues of atheism, such as clear thinking, a rational outlook on life and the ability the see things for what they really are, to no end. However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

Let me consider this further. Forgive me if I am mistaken, because you are new here so I may be, but I take it you are someone who does believe the universe is not meaningless. If that is the case, can you tell me what you think that "meaning" is?

 

[phildonnia]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror”

Welcome to the forum.

Having been on both sides of the "belief" question, I can say that I find "existential terror", to be much more manageable than haedophobia.

Taking your question at face value: I try not to think about death all the time. As Poe put it:

Alas! the grim legion of sepulchral terrors cannot be regarded as altogether fanciful -- but, like the Demons in whose company Afrasiab made his voyage down the Oxus, they must sleep, or they will devour us -- they must be suffered to slumber, or we perish."

That's how I do it anyway. Although I have occasionally meditated upon my own non-existence as a sort of "implosion therapy".

 

[Scot C. Trypal]

Hi, and welcome.

I’m confused as to how Theism does any better in this regard.

Is there any God-given purpose you’d find hollow or reject? What if God made you to be a meat bag paperweight? No grand plan for you, you’re just there to do the job of a rock and keep His papers from getting all messy as He moves upon the face of the waters.

What if God’s purpose for you was to be a rapist, or worse?

My guess is that you’d judge many purposes as purposeless and unfulfilling, even if a God gave them to you, and that you’re really in the same boat as everyone else. Even with a God, you must judge what gives your life purpose, and why you’d choose to find purpose in a God’s purpose.

For me, and most humans I know, my purposes are many: my family, mundane things like eating and breathing, my usefulness to my society, my survival until I’ve lived what I feel is a full life. That’s just how I’m programmed, and to fret about it comes off as being upset that Venus doesn’t have a better excuse than gravity for orbiting the Sun (or even divine decree). Pointless.

Lastly, so what if "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life”? It’s better to have your life--your family, your marriage, your child’s birth, all those many precious moments with those you love, all that--to be swallowed up by an infinite life? Not to me. These choices, people, and moments have an immeasurable value to my life, as I suspect it will some day be a complete, unalterable work. No one can, for example, take away the fact that I tucked my kids into bed last night, and, even when I’m gone, I will have done that, and that is one of the best purposes I could ever hope for.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror”...

... However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe....

"Purpose" is a human concept. "Meaning" is a human concept. Even "existential terror" is a human concept.

The point here is, that beyond our thinking, there is no need for such constructs.

One can be in peace about existence without the need of any ulterior "meaning", without believing that there has to be a "purpose" at all in existing or ceasing to exist.

Life is, still, nice, or terrible, its up to you. Humans, and their meanings, are irrelevant from the point of view of an impersonal universe. If that cause you terror, its because your theistic beliefs, thats about it.

 

[Pahansiri]

Re: Re: How do you guys do it?

"Purpose" is a human concept. "Meaning" is a human concept. Even "existential terror" is a human concept.

The point here is, that beyond our thinking, there is no need for such constructs.

One can be in peace about existence without the need of any ulterior "meaning", without believing that there has to be a "purpose" at all in existing or ceasing to exist.

Life is, still, nice, or terrible, its up to you. Humans, and their meanings, are irrelevant from the point of view of an impersonal universe. If that cause you terror, its because your theistic beliefs, thats about it.

Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,
sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

Dp 188

 

[HarryKeogh]

The universe has been around for 13 billion years. I only remember the last 30 years or so. When I'm dead I won't miss the billions of years that lie ahead. I will have ceased to exist. It's nothing to stress over.

 

[pgwenthold]

The universe has been around for 13 billion years. I only remember the last 30 years or so. When I'm dead I won't miss the billions of years that lie ahead. I will have ceased to exist. It's nothing to stress over.

I was trying to figure out how to say something like this. Knowing that I will not be around for the next infinity years doesn't bother me in the same way it doesn't bother that I missed the first 13 billion.

Or something like that.

 

[spectacle]

i agree w/ a lot of the answers hear already.

i enjoy the idea of "meaningless" and mortal life. b/c no matter what you do we all end up dead, and then no one remembers what they did b/c they no longer exist. id rather not set myself up for the disappointment when i figure out there is no immortal afterlife. if i die in my sleep one day, so what? i will be too busy being dead to care you can say im living a meaningless existence all you want but it doesnt bother me if anything is meaningful or meaningless, i rather enjoy being and thats all i need. im not a fan of this hocus pocus afterlife, dont be so naive, LIVE IN THE NOW

 

[P.S.A.]

However, I rarely ever hear anything about the anxiety or the loss of your peace of mind which comes with living in an ultimately meaningless universe.

You are assuming atheists have this feeling, but religious people do not. The reality is everyone has it at some point; it's an inherant trait in anything which is able to predict the future. The difference between people is the coping mechanism by which they outweigh that feeling... and that can be anything which works, anything which gives meaning to existance. And that doesn't have to be God; it's just that God works for some people, where as all the things you disparge works for others.

You ask how we get peace of mind... well let me reverse Pascal's Wager for you; you cannot prove God exists, not yours not anyone's God... but friends, family, junk food, sex and so forth can all be seen to exist right now. I'll take those pleasures, those small inconsequential and finite goods now whilst they are here... That doesn't mean acting immoral, because overall immorality is the surest way to lead to the destruction of what good is here; but why waste what little life you do get for sure, dreaming of an eternal life for which there's no evidence for at all?

I find nothing peaceful in merely hoping for a better world beyond this one; no peace in assuming there's some religious reason why evil exists. I want this one to be better, for evil to be tackled not just understood. And, even if only in small ways, you can make personally make the world just a little bit more so by simply embracing those around you... and when it comes to the Scientific Principal, the world can be improved in huge ways. Science has cured more people with diseases than all the religious saints of any faith put together can lay claim to doing so. If God works for you personally, then good for you... but I prefer to go with the better track record, thank you. I could have no peace of mind at all if I chose the so far inferior option.

 

[Z]

No terror. No problem. Live my life, enjoy every possible moment, do what I want to do, when I want to do it, do my best to leave the world a little better than I found it. What's to fear? Where's the anxiety?

 

[FreeChile]

Re: Re: How do you guys do it?

"Purpose" is a human concept. "Meaning" is a human concept. Even "existential terror" is a human concept.

The point here is, that beyond our thinking, there is no need for such constructs.

One can be in peace about existence without the need of any ulterior "meaning", without believing that there has to be a "purpose" at all in existing or ceasing to exist.

Life is, still, nice, or terrible, its up to you. Humans, and their meanings, are irrelevant from the point of view of an impersonal universe. If that cause you terror, its because your theistic beliefs, thats about it.

Well said.

Examine the life of a child. Talk about living in the moment. We adults teach them about life and death among other things. And this question is about death--the fear of what will happen with this thing you've learned is you, when IT is no more. This fear is only there when you're dead--meaning when you stifle your life by thinking about this junk.

When my children play with their friends, they forget all about me. It's like if I were dead. I hope to be like them and not the reverse. The day this body disappears, I would prefer they did the same thing--live with those that remain alive.

Yesterday's gone. Tomorrow never comes. Time is another human invention. Now is the only time that we have.

So, yes! Live the moment.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

No terror. No problem. Live my life, enjoy every possible moment, do what I want to do, when I want to do it, do my best to leave the world a little better than I found it. What's to fear? Where's the anxiety?

The anxiety is in the possibility of running out of taco fillings. However, once one matures a bit, and notices all the many things that tacos may be filled with, the anxiety subsides.

 

[Phil]

What I mean is, how do most of you, it seems, maintain disbelief in any higher purpose in the world while still avoiding that nasty feeling of “existential terror” (Y'know, the realization of, "I'm just a short-lived meatsack who's friends, family, home, and everything else I cherish will descend into irreversible oblivion regardless of my decisions in life, etc., etc.”). . . .

. . . I would genuinely like to know how you all deal with this side-effect (assuming it occurs at all) of not believing in any grand meaning to life. . . .

Are you kidding me?

I don't avoid "that nasty feeling of existential terror". I can't. It consumes my every waking moment. There's no way for me to look beyond the fact that we're all here because of some stupid, ridiculous accident; some trick of chance.

Knowing that there is a mind-numbingly expansive cosmos out there where the word "why" holds no meaning whatsover takes my insides and turns them to mush.

Knowing that human beings are the only creatures who cannot exist without needing to have it mean something swirls emotions inside me, like one of those taffy machines at the boardwalk.

There's no deeper measure of terror than that stemming from the realization that everything I cherish will descend into oblivion regardless of what I do or say. It is powerful enough to rip my mind to shreds and dissolve my heart into a puddle of goo.

Are you kidding me?

I don't avoid "that nasty feeling of existential terror". I revel in it.