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(How) do magicians enjoy magic shows?

Upsilon

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If a professional magician goes to a magic show, do they see all the tricks? If so, is it as enjoyable for them as it is for a sap like me? If Penn or Teller go to somebody else's show, do you think they are left wondering how anything was done? I could imagine that you'd see how the opportunities were created without knowing every last detail.
 
How do singers enjoy listening to other singers?

Often, magicians will know how an effect is accomplished, but can still enjoy the actual performance. Being a successful magician isn't just about the tricks. Any fool can learn magic tricks. It takes talent to make the tricks enjoyable for people.
 
How can an actor enjoy a production of Hamlet when he knows how it's going to end?
 
I know everything this guy is doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45cM-5sjQs8 (the clip is of magicians watching another magician at a magicians' convention).

I can't do it even close to how well he does it and never will be able to.

So, yeah. What others have said, it isn't about being fooled so much as admiring someone's technique or audience management or routining or simply being entertained.

I don't enjoy "big box" illusion shows though. I don't appreciate the skill enough to get past knowing the methods.
 
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I've often noticed that the other magicians seem to get the most enjoyment (out of a good performance) or bemusement (... bad performance). Just as other musicians can be counted on to actually pay attention to what the guy in the small club or on the street is doing, magicians appreciate their own craft.

Hanging around on these boards and following up on a lot of the "secrets revealed" stuff, I still enjoy a good conjurer, even if I know how they're pulling it off.

It's been mentioned elsewhere, but check out the reactions of Penn & Teller when they were actually fooled. The love it!
 
Unfortunately the Penn & Teller video doesn't work where I am. OK, I can definitely appreciate that it's not just about the tricks, that it's about the showmanship and skill, too. But it seems a bit oversimplified to compare it to "How do singers enjoy listening to other singers?" and the like, since there is that extra element of mystery/deception with magic. I was especially curious to know whether magicians always see the deceptions, and it sounds like the answer is no. Thanks!
 
Upsilon said:
Unfortunately the Penn & Teller video doesn't work where I am. OK, I can definitely appreciate that it's not just about the tricks, that it's about the showmanship and skill, too. But it seems a bit oversimplified to compare it to "How do singers enjoy listening to other singers?" and the like, since there is that extra element of mystery/deception with magic. I was especially curious to know whether magicians always see the deceptions, and it sounds like the answer is no. Thanks!
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Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but I was referring more to the magician's skills. I concur that comparing to a singer is probably a bad analogy. Certain aspects of great voices are natural - some people just can't sing no matter how much they've learned in the way of "trade secrets".

Conjurers are probably more aptly compared to athletes viewing another stellar athlete. A good tennis player might understand all the mechanics and movements that Federer (in his prime) put behind those repeated surgically precise shots, but they couldn't necessarily reproduce the shots repeatedly under competitive conditions. I think the above post referencing the great sleight of hand video is a great example. He says he knows every move along the performance, but couldn't necessarily match them.
 
I'd like to point out something else related to "magician's eye." When I purchase an effect, it's often because the trick seems amazing to me and I'm fooled. The "magic moment" and befuddlement is recreated in the same way that led me to pursue the craft in the first place.

After I own the effect, and have practiced it a bit, the amazement part disappears. I have to struggle to remember how it looked originally so I'll know how the effect will appear to an audience member who hasn't seen it before.

That can be tough. Sometimes, I lose faith and don't believe enough in something I admired and don't want to perform it, because of familiarity.

I'll go so far as to mention the "dresser drawer" phenomenon, something all magicians (as far as I know) know about. It's a drawer, or a box tucked away that holds all those tricks that were purchased and became unusable, either because they didn't do what they claimed, or because the magician's eye ruined them. We fall in and out of love. Sometimes this is because we get a closer look at our beloved without her makeup.

But, a performance is much more than a series of tricks strung together. Even when a magician is "covering" stuff that's standard, classic and well-known, there's so much else there it's still interesting. Originality of method or trick counts most in competitions, not so much in everyday performances. After all, we aren't usually performing for other magicians.
 
marplots said:
I'd like to point out something else related to "magician's eye." When I purchase an effect, it's often because the trick seems amazing to me and I'm fooled. The "magic moment" and befuddlement is recreated in the same way that led me to pursue the craft in the first place.

After I own the effect, and have practiced it a bit, the amazement part disappears. I have to struggle to remember how it looked originally so I'll know how the effect will appear to an audience member who hasn't seen it before.

That can be tough. Sometimes, I lose faith and don't believe enough in something I admired and don't want to perform it, because of familiarity.

I'll go so far as to mention the "dresser drawer" phenomenon, something all magicians (as far as I know) know about. It's a drawer, or a box tucked away that holds all those tricks that were purchased and became unusable, either because they didn't do what they claimed, or because the magician's eye ruined them. We fall in and out of love. Sometimes this is because we get a closer look at our beloved without her makeup.

But, a performance is much more than a series of tricks strung together. Even when a magician is "covering" stuff that's standard, classic and well-known, there's so much else there it's still interesting. Originality of method or trick counts most in competitions, not so much in everyday performances. After all, we aren't usually performing for other magicians.
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Precisely, though my "dresser drawer" is actually several large storage tubs.

I think I've told this before, but I will tell it again: Until a few years ago there was a small magic shop nearby which staged a humorous, primarily kid-focused magic show once a month in the back room. $3 to get in, and my kids loved going. The majority of the show repeated every month, but most had a guest performer or two stuck in the middle somewhere.

None of the performers were good enough technically to do it for a living, and there was never any effect that I did not know the method for, and yet I loved it. They had fun, they made people laugh, and it was inexpensive memories created with my children. They also got to know me. In one humorous card trick at the beginning of every show, they asked for a volunteer. Sometimes the crowd was too small or not yet warmed up enough to produce a volunteer, so they would call on me. I wasn't a stooge; my participation was not required for the effect to work, but I did allow them to do the silly things that made people laugh (the magician was acting as a silly mindreader, and to "gather my thoughts" ran his hands all over my face and through my hair so that I was very mussed up by the end of it). I always knew what he was going to say and do, and yet I always had to fight from laughing too much myself.

Sorry. I could ramble on. There are two important points:

1. For most magicians, the enjoyment isn't about being fooled.

And here is the more important point:

2. For most non-magicians, the enjoyment isn't about being fooled; it is about being entertained. There is a tremendous difference.
 
This reminds me a little of famous actors who refuse to watch movies they've stared in.
 
Magicians can enjoy watching performances in lots of ways. There is a wide variety of presentations and they can be clever and compelling. There can still be surprises when we don't catch a particular element of it. Methods can be appreciated too, and methods aren't always the same for any two performances of a particular effect. And we don't always know the methods. The skill of executing moves is something we can sometimes enjoy more than non-magicians.

I think that these three videos illustrate some of the above. They share the same basic idea, but differ significantly:

Yann Frisch performing "Baltass":


David Regal, with Hermann, in "My Best Friend":


And Mark James, in a more conventional but excellent performance:
 
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Those are excellent, Alan, thanks. The Yann Frisch routine is new to me, and reminiscent of Cardini without being a copy.
 
He came first in FISM 2012 for parlour magic with that routine. :)
 
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Some magicians enjoy observing the audience's reactions. Sometimes the littlest things have the biggest impacts.
 
As a hobbyist juggler, I see juggling shows different than non-jugglers. It sounds like there are a lot of similarities to magicians, really. There's no deception in the juggling show in the first place, so I can see how just appreciating showmanship, creativity, skill, and the crowd can be a fun experience. Thanks for the replies!
 
This is why I'm not sure I really buy the whole "magician's code" thing. Knowing how a trick is done doesn't ruin the performance, if the performance is good.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
This is why I'm not sure I really buy the whole "magician's code" thing. Knowing how a trick is done doesn't ruin the performance, if the performance is good.
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True enough, but remember, magicians are people who not only know how the tricks work, but who are invested in the craft as well. Certainly the mystery and surprise for the lay audience will add to the experience. Otherwise, it might as well be a comedian up there. Why have any magic at all?

The magician's code, as practiced, is a very low hurdle. Not always, but mostly. Finding things out is a matter of how much time and money you want to spend. But without the investment that comes from studying the discipline, knowing how it's done generally detracts from a performance. I think most of us learn this lesson early on -- we blab to a friend or relative and the fascination goes away for them.

The perspective is different. Say we both know the coin is hidden behind the hand. That bit of information is a solution in one sense, but unless you've spent hours learning how to do it, I can't see why that would be particularly admirable or even appreciated by a layperson. The how he got the coin into position, the misdirection used to pull the eye away from the "dirty hand" and the way the move is integrated into a larger routine... there's so much more that makes it worth watching beyond the "secret."

Someone who knows the secret and nothing more is left disappointed because they haven't traveled the road. Keeping it hush-hush is really a way to derail this disappointment instead of protecting a trade secret (although there is that as well -- trade secrets are needed to monetize material to sell to other magicians).
 
I was going to respond seriously, but I can't top marplots' answer, so here is my non-serious response, though I suspect I may be the only one who finds it humorous:



Magiccastle, Magiccastle, this is Rhetoric1, Call for Fire, Heretic in Open, Danger Close, over.

Rhetoric1, Magiccastle, roger, Heretic in Open, Danger Close. Send, over.

Magiccastle, Rhetoric1. My location, Lima Tango seven fife niner zero seven fower two six two, over.

Rhetoric1, Magiccastle, I copy Lima Tango seven fife niner zero seven fower two six two, over.

Magiccastle, Rhetoric1. Target at one six four degrees magnetic. I say again, one six four degrees magnetic, break…… fife zero meters.

Rhetoric1, Magiccastle, one six four degrees magnetic, fife zero meters, break…. Shot, over.

Magiccastle, Shot, out.

…

Rhetoric1, Magiccastle, Splash, over.

Splash, out.

….

Magiccastle, Rhetoric1, adjust one fife meters in, Fire for Effect, Willie Pete, over.

Rhetoric1, Magiccastle, adjust one fife meters in, Fire for Effect, Willie Pete. Better button up, break….. Shot, out.
 
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