How do I deal with 'becoming an agnostic'...?

[don9999]

I've been a member and reading JREF for many years. At first I was glad to read about clairvoyants, psychics and homeopathy - and to discover that my long-held doubts about them were rational. Over time I then realised that I should apply the same critical-thinking towards my strong religious beliefs - I had been a practicing (ie. attending church etc.) catholic for around 35 years. I then realised that there was no more evidence of a god as there is for the efficacy of homeopathy, or the existence of psychic abilities.

The obvious result is that I became agnostic. And in general I am comfortable with that belief. (or should that be 'non-belief'.)

However.......I AM finding several aspects of life difficult to deal with.

First, the surprising one, is that I miss going to church! Not the bit about worship, or prayer, or even quiet reflection. But the fact that I got together weekly with friends and a community for a common cause (albeit I no longer believe in that cause). I can't find a similar community to belong to - sports events, local pubs, social activities. None of them really come close to the same sense of community.

This is made worse because I have a wife and three children that I used to take to church. I no longer take them since I actually feel uncomfortable in a church. However, I still feel that I am letting the children 'miss out' on attending church. I know, this IS a muddle. I don't believe in god, but I wanted the children to experience the enjoyment of going to church.

As I said, I no longer feel particularly comfortable in a church. Everyone else is praying and worshipping etc., yet I don't want to join in. I can't recite prayers or sing hymns that are 'worshipping' a fictitious character! Yet, I allow my wife to persuade me to take the family there at least on key dates such as Christmas and Easter.

Another 'issue' in my life is that my eldest daughter goes to a catholic primary school. And my second daughter will be starting at the same school in September. The school was always our choice, being a catholic school, but this was before my change in belief. However, the school is very good, well-respected, and in particular, is very good for my daughter - she has special needs, but the school is happy to incorporate her into mainstream schooling - and she is excelling all expectations. Having said that, I also hjave to acknowledge that she is being taught about God, to worship him, to pray to him etc... Fortunately, she hasn't yet questioned me about why I don't join in. My second daughter (without special needs) and who is very clever, will no doubt ask me those questions very soon.

My 'next' problem is that my eldest daughter will be taking her first holy communion later this year. How do I deal with that? It's a time of excitement in the catholic community and my wife in particular is looking forward to it. My daughter gets to dress up, attend a special mass etc. etc. Yet, I don't believe in any of it. No doubt, I will have to 'go along with it' and hide my discomfort etc.

Has anyone else been in a similar situation? How have they dealt with it?

Of course, I could simply announce to everyone that I am agnostic, I do not believe and that I refuse to have anything to do with the catholic church. But I wonder whether the gentlest approach is to play it softly, admitting being an agnostic, but going with the flow to allow my wife/children to 'play' with their beliefs until the kids are old enough to make up their own mind.

Would be interested in people's opinions.

 

[CheeseDude]

I miss going to church! Not the bit about worship, or prayer, or even quiet reflection. But the fact that I got together weekly with friends and a community for a common cause (albeit I no longer believe in that cause). I can't find a similar community to belong to - sports events, local pubs, social activities. None of them really come close to the same sense of community.

I am sure there must be a secular humanist society in your area. At least you can meet regularly with like-minded people. You can also get involved politically or do some volnteer work for something. Always a strong sense of community when people have something important that they all care about. Hope that helps.

You will find it more and more difficult to tolerate the religious habits that surround us everywhere. I choose to calmly voice my reasons for not buying the stories. A good way to ease yourself out of this is to recognize the beauty of some of the religious traditions and find their meaning. This helps to understand why others need to believe so badly and makes you less of an enemy.

 

[Lothian]

Don9999,

Missing church or the community feeling is, I understand, a common problem. I don’t think there is any equivalent. In the UK there are regional humanist meetings which are regular but not normally weekly. I have heard some humanists talk about Unitarian churches as somewhere atheists can go and be welcomed despite their (lack of) belief. I can’t personally comment as I never got into the church thing in the first place and what you don’t have, you don’t miss.

The school issue is interesting. In the UK catholic schools are generally highly thought of (although I would argue this has little to do with the religion). This means that they can be selective and often will not let children in unless their parents regularly attend.

While I do not agree with religious schools I feel the fault lies with the government policy of state funding the schools rather that the schools themselves. I wouldn’t worry about your children being fed a diet of Catholisism. You came out the other side! I think as long as they are introduced to critical thinking at home and are made aware of the issues they can make their own minds up.

Neither would I worry about attending your daughters communion. I attended my daughters Xmas nativity play and a ballet performance without and interest or liking for either. If anyone asked my opinions they would have got them but I was there for her, not for what she was doing or representing.

The discomfort you feel is as more to do with your history than anything to do with your daughter. You will feel more comfortable as you come to terms with losing your belief. At the moment there is too much emotion for you.

There is no need to announce anything to your church. I have been to synagogues and mosques without the need to announce my lack of faith in their beliefs, I am sure you have too. Treat the catholic church in the same way as you would any faith. Treat the believers with respect but if questioned you can state you are not (no longer) a believer but are their for your daughter or whatever. Once you see Catholicism in the same way as Buddhism, Taoism and Judaism you will be more comfortable watching their bizarre rituals.

Allowing your wife and children make their own minds up ? Of course. All you need to do is make sure they have the option to make an informed decision as opposed to making a decision based on one point of view. The danger of any other action is you might drive them to an answer which may not be right for them and this will lead to resentment.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

What the heck, keep going to church. There is no law that says you have to buy into everything said there. I go to a church a few times a year for various occasions and quite enjoy it.

But I wonder whether the gentlest approach is to play it softly, admitting being an agnostic, but going with the flow to allow my wife/children to 'play' with their beliefs until the kids are old enough to make up their own mind.

I think this is the best approach.

I don't think there is any need for an agnostic or atheist to eschew the trappings of religion. It's a lack of belief, not a loathing.

~~ Paul

 

[Kochanski]

I don't think there is a single good answer to any of this. You have to find your own comfort level with all that goes on around you and let people know your own feelings in your own way and time. How much or little you involve yourself in religious ceremonies is something you have to determine as you go.

However, there are plenty of ways to find community outside of church services, I am sure you can find lots of local organizations that could use assistance. In my area the Nature Conservancy has great need of people to help with various things and they are a very nice group of people who do positive things for the environment. It is also something you can get your family involved in. I am sure there are other things in your area you can find to be involved in that you will find meaningful.

 

[Dogdoctor]

Are you saying your family is unaware of your beliefs? If so then you do need to tread lightly, it can be a shock to many to find you have changed beliefs. I have not been in your predicament and likely will never be since I would have already communicated a change so I am not sure what to advise you. There is no need to try to influence your kids and wife to believe differently or to avoid going to church unless you just can't handle it.

 

[Forty-Two]

In regards to your daughter's first communion, perhaps you could start looking at such ceremonies less as acts of religious devotion and more as celebrating traditions. One of my Jewish friends doesn't identify himself as religious, but he still eats kosher and celebrates Passover out of respect for his ancestors and to feel connected to them. If your family has been Catholic for several generations, why not treat this rite-of-passage for what it is -- a meaningful celebration that your parents had for you and their parents for them, and which you are now giving to your children. It's meaningful even if you don't believe in God.

 

[chriswl]

I don't see why an agnostic can't pray and go to church (I'm an atheist, myself). How certain do you have to be of God's existence anyway to not be an agnostic? Is anyone that certain or do they just tell thenselves they are? I recently read an interview with the Archbishop of Canterbury, the head of the Church of England, where he admitted that couldn't be absolutely 100% certain of God's existence.

 

[TobiasTheViking]

I
As I said, I no longer feel particularly comfortable in a church. Everyone else is praying and worshipping etc., yet I don't want to join in. I can't recite prayers or sing hymns that are 'worshipping' a fictitious character! Yet, I allow my wife to persuade me to take the family there at least on key dates such as Christmas and Easter.

I'm an atheist, and have been for as far as i can remember.
I have sung in a church choir, for many years.
I've attended church and prayed for friends of my familie.
I've attended church to help my grandfather pass over.

I've done all that, and i'm an atheist.

The hymns are beautifull, why not sing them? it isn't like your are hurting anyone (and if you are, that is, quite honestly, their problem).

The prayers are a sentiment of what i want, what i hope will happen. I don't have to pray to god or some supernatural being, i can just pray that the world turns out as i want. And i can offer support by doing that, support that is needed.

And i've attended church for my grandfathers funeral and helping him pass over. By that i mean i have helped do what he wanted to happen, i have helped by being there for the family that needed closure. And they helped give me closure. And no, i don't mean "pass over" in any supernatural sence, i simply mean that friends and family can get closure.

I see no problem with an atheist going to church and enjoying the company, and the ceremony.

I have often been interested in going to a church and discuss theology with people who want to ( not to pursuade or convert, just because it is interesting ).

But since i'm only 23, i'm sure others have better answers for you.

I hope for the best for you. Hey, i even pray for the best for you.

Sincerely
Tobias

 

[Forty-Two]

I've recently come to identify as an agnostic too, don9999, so it was somewhat comforting to read some of the thoughts I'd been examining myself. However, I came from a different religious background (Methodist), so there are a lot of ways in which our experiences differ. I agree with a lot of what Tobias has said; I don't see why you would have to give up going to church. Like I wrote in my earlier post, you can treat it like a tradition rather than expect some spiritual comfort.

I think Tobias raises a lot of good points about the music and the prayers. When I first started realizing that I might not believe everything in Christianity, I began to look at my church's worship service very critically. I was a bit surprised to find that Methodist services have very little that would be objectionable to an agnostic -- which really shouldn't have come as such a surprise, considering that it's a non-dogmatic denomination. The prayers asked for wisdom, insight, and courage to use our skills in ways that benefit people on the whole. Even if you don't believe that a god is going to help you do that, that kind of prayer does provoke you to start thinking of the bigger picture.

Also, being a Methodist, I've grown up with a very strong musical tradition. I sang in the choir and rang in the bell choir, and as I started my career in music, the members of the church provided a supportive audience. I'd have no qualms about performing any sacred music of Bach, Schubert or Scriabin (now there was a woo!), so why should I worry about singing hymns when I just enjoy singing?

I've only attended one Catholic mass in my life (as part of confirmation in the United Methodist Church, incidentally), so I don't know what is involved in the worship services of your church. Again, though, if you view it as tradition, is there anything really objectionable?

 

[Meadmaker]

I went through a lot of the same problems some 20 years ago, and it isn't easy. For Catholics, there are some special problems, like when they get to the Creed, or taking communion. I've been through some of the same issues, but it wasn't quite so tough, because I only had a mother to deal with, not a wife or child.

(I still have a mother to deal with. I still go to Midnight Mass, but that's about it.)

For me, I now have a different issue. I married a non-religious Jew, who became a religious Jew, and now I'm raising a Jewish son. So there I am, blessing Adonai all the time, not just at "church" but every Friday night at the dinner table.

I deal with it in a couple of different ways, some of which may work for you. First, recognize that as uncomfortable as it may be, what harm can there be in going to church? Who's going to be mad at you? God? If you believed that, there wouldn't be a problem, would there?

Second, look around at what the church does. It's not perfect, but it's not bad, either. Recognize that churches do a lot of good work, and that is reason enough to support them.

Third, with respect to children, I worry a bit about feeding my son a lot of stuff that I think is wrong, but the way I figure it, I'm exposing my son to a side of the issue that he wouldn't get from the secular world. He'll get the non-religious side from the world around him. When he's old enough, he can make up his own mind. I figured I owed him an upbringing that taught him how to be a moral person, and that a religious upbringing would do that. If he rejects it later, which in some ways I hope he does, I hope he doesn't throw the morals part out along with the faith part.

Fourth, church is a place where, for one hour a week, we at least spend some time thinking about how to be better people. Everyone ought to do that, and most people wouldn't do it outside of church. Even if you decide you can't stomach going to mass, do something else instead.

Finally, recognize you aren't the only one in that church thinking exactly the same thing you are.

Will any of these things help? I have no idea. They would help some, and not others.