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How could a feng shui test be devised?

Sherman Bay

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This came up in a dinner conversation. How could a test be designed for the claims of a feng shui practitioner?

Ideally it would be something along the lines of Emily Rosza's therapeutic touch test, where her entire investment was a piece of cardboard, a coin, a pencil and a tally sheet.
 
First, one would have to state, in rigorous and unambiguous terms, the claims a practitioner makes.

This came up in a dinner conversation. How could a test be designed for the claims of a feng shui practitioner?

Ideally it would be something along the lines of Emily Rosza's therapeutic touch test, where her entire investment was a piece of cardboard, a coin, a pencil and a tally sheet.
 
Well, for a start they make a claim that there is "energy" or "chi" which can be affected by the placement of furniture.
 
You tell me. It was your dinner conversation. I haven't the faintest idea ... one of the problems with applying rigor and scientific testing to these nebulous subjects is that it's hard to get the proponents to describe *in detail* what the claims are.
 
You tell me. It was your dinner conversation.
At dinner, one person said her daughter-in-law had a "degree" in Feng Shui from some institution and wanted to open a business to provide a Feng Shui service, being fully qualified.

Obviously, I said she could make bigger money faster by passing the MDC. But I was at a loss to design a test, so help me out.

I'm aware that Penn & Teller had an episode about it, but I can't find the particular disk for the show, and Netflix isn't any help. Anyone know which one that is?
 
Here's a germ of an idea, inspired by this:
Sha Chi, or sharp feng shui energy, can also be created inside the building. For example, when a sharp wall angle, called poison arrow, is pointing at your bed, there is a constant emission of attacking energy directed at your body. In both cases the proximity is important; the further the attacking element is located from you or your house, the lesser its bad feng shui influence.
I will have to make an assumption that the "poison arrow" phenomena isn't inhibited by an opaque curtain, a room divider can suffice for the sharp wall angle, and an experienced Feng Shui proponent will be able to tell within a few minutes at most if he/she is being attacked by the arrow energy. And, obviously, the proponent must believe in this statement in the first place.

Then let's line up 10 beds and separate them from another part of the room with an opaque curtain. Randomly selecting a bed number, place a room divider next to one, but hidden from the bed by the curtain, pointed at the bed. Bring in the Feng Shui advocate and ask him/her to tell which bed is affected without peaking around, under or thru the curtain. Repeat test 10 times. If the claim is valid, there should be 10 right answers and no wrong ones. Any other result is a failure, and a 10% correct score would be expected by chance.

Maybe chairs could substitute for beds to make the equipment list cheaper, assuming this doesn't affect the Feng Shui phenom.
 
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It would be up to the person with the "degree" in Feng Shui to state what difference it can make. I suggest you ask her. Be ready for evasive or vague answers which cannot be tested.
 
I don't remember which episode of Bull**** it was, but as I recall they had several different Feng Shui "experts" go to the same house to rearrange the furniture, and they all did it differently and had different opinions. Maybe the test could be along those lines. But as Timothy pointed out, an unambiguous claim must be made. I remember on another forum discussing Chi energy with a bunch of people who believed in it. But they all had different definitions, which made it hard to discuss, and also to me was further evidence that it's bunk.
 
Unfortunately, it seems to me that the claims of such things based on eastern mysticism (or any mysticism) are inherently so vague that it is difficult to ascribe any rigor to the testing. In fact the words mystic, mystical and mysticism share the same root origin as mystery. So as long as the precise cause of the results remains essentially a mystery, everything seems to work. Once you really start trying to define or test it, determining causal relationships, then it loses all of its mystical or mysterious powers. The negative flow of chi can (from my limited understanding ) counteract the positive flow, so by just questioning or doubting you set up such a negative chi field (as if one could actually apply vector fields to chi) that the results are inevitably doomed to be negative. The first requirement (as I understand it) is that you must believe in its effectiveness, after that it is all downhill from there. Also, it may not be just limited to you, your furniture or your beliefs (I’m just extrapolating here, you’ll have to ask someone with a degree in chi), your neighbors or neighborhood could be so un-feng shui and full of such doubts that their combined negative chi projects so much that it always cancels out your best efforts to establish a positive chi flow. As a consequence, negative results never mean a lack of applicability, while positive results can only come from the proper and perhaps temporary flow of positive chi. These remarks are just my opinions based on my limited understanding, as I have done no extensive research on the subject.
 
Unfortunately, it seems to me that the claims of such things based on eastern mysticism (or any mysticism) are inherently so vague that it is difficult to ascribe any rigor to the testing. In fact the words mystic, mystical and mysticism share the same root origin as mystery. So as long as the precise cause of the results remains essentially a mystery, everything seems to work. Once you really start trying to define or test it, determining causal relationships, then it loses all of its mystical or mysterious powers. The negative flow of chi can (from my limited understanding ) counteract the positive flow, so by just questioning or doubting you set up such a negative chi field (as if one could actually apply vector fields to chi) that the results are inevitably doomed to be negative. The first requirement (as I understand it) is that you must believe in its effectiveness, after that it is all downhill from there. Also, it may not be just limited to you, your furniture or your beliefs (I’m just extrapolating here, you’ll have to ask someone with a degree in chi), your neighbors or neighborhood could be so un-feng shui and full of such doubts that their combined negative chi projects so much that it always cancels out your best efforts to establish a positive chi flow. As a consequence, negative results never mean a lack of applicability, while positive results can only come from the proper and perhaps temporary flow of positive chi. These remarks are just my opinions based on my limited understanding, as I have done no extensive research on the subject.

So how does anyone know feng shui or chi energy exists? If it's so amorphous and hard to study.
 
There are potential tests of chi, but not in the context of feng shui. I'm trying to come up with some claim that can be tested but I'm not having much luck. Most of the claims about the effectiveness of feng shui say things like "improved health and wellbeing", which is pretty nebulous.
 
So how does anyone know feng shui or chi energy exists?

Because there are thousands of true personal stories about change of luck, new-found love and all kinds of successes once a house has been feng shuied.

Impossible to test for, because true controls are impossible to arrange. Each house has a unique chi.
 
Impossible to test for, because true controls are impossible to arrange. Each house has a unique chi.
This could be tested--maybe. Have 20 of the leading feng shui experts separately go to the same house and describe/measure/whatever the chi energy there. This reminds me of an argument I heard once that Chinese medicine can't be tested because each person gets an individual prescription of herbs. But you could test this with 100 people going to the same Chinese doctor with the same ailment, and 50 getting the real herbs and 50 getting non-active placebo herbs (which would be dispensed not by the doctor but by an assistant for it to be double blind).
 
Ask the claimant what it would take for him to be wrong. Design the test from that.

If he says "nothing", then it is pretty clear to all that he is a crook.
 
I think speculation on this subject is more or less futile until we can get an actual feng shuier to outline precisely what the claim is and how it can be tested.
 
This could be tested--maybe. Have 20 of the leading feng shui experts separately go to the same house and describe/measure/whatever the chi energy there.

Can't happen. The entry of the feng shuist changes the chi by his or her entry. Feng shuists with degrees will know how much their own chi affects the chi if the house, but they can't account for what other people will change when they enter.

As well as that, each feng shuist might use a different mechanism to change the chi. One may have a smiling pig facing the northern apex, while another uses a dish of herbs.

I think speculation on this subject is more or less futile until we can get an actual feng shuier to outline precisely what the claim is and how it can be tested.

I used to bonk a feng shuist, does that count?

The claims are spurious, vague and rather boring, I found. I don't believe any feng shuist will ever give a specific result to be expected as the chi is imemasurable in the first place, so measuring changes to it is somewhat difficult.
 
So how does anyone know feng shui or chi energy exists? If it's so amorphous and hard to study.

I don’t know that anybody does, but of course if you do not believe then that could be an indication that your positive chi flow is blocked. Myself, I’ve always been a big believer in knowing and not just believing (positive and negative chi not with standing).



I think speculation on this subject is more or less futile until we can get an actual feng shuier to outline precisely what the claim is and how it can be tested.

Agreed.



I used to bonk a feng shuist, does that count?

Did you have to rearrange the furniture beforehand, for maximum flow?


ETA:

If not a test, perhaps we now have the basis for some interesting experimentation?
 
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