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How can the world forgive Germany?

Monketi Ghost

Confusion Reactor
Monketi Ghost
Joined
May 21, 2003
Messages
25,141
In another thread I'd mentioned watching the series The World at War.

It's appalling what the Nazis did, in every country they occupied. It's horrible that so many German citizens ignored it, or were happy to benefit from it.

I understand that an entire generation had been conditioned by Nazi propaganda to think Jewish people inferior, and the German people naturally better.

But the systematic atrocities. The infrastructure and bureaucracy built to carry out those atrocities.

Combined with the war just two decades gone by... how can the world ever forgive the German people??
 
Well, it's for exactly that reason that the Soviet Union were so insistent on having a puppet goverment in Poland. They were sick and tired of Germany sweeping through Poland and attacking their western borders and wanted a buffer zone that they controlled.
 
I'm just appalled considering both wars, and suspect there must be something about the German people themselves that would allow them to, say, starve and then bomb the Warsaw ghetto into submission.

Wth??

Some of the people who committed the atrocities are still alive. Old, but alive. This wasn't long ago. We're only coming up on the hundred year anniversary of the Big One.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
In another thread I'd mentioned watching the series The World at War.

It's appalling what the Nazis did, in every country they occupied. It's horrible that so many German citizens ignored it, or were happy to benefit from it.

I understand that an entire generation had been conditioned by Nazi propaganda to think Jewish people inferior, and the German people naturally better.

But the systematic atrocities. The infrastructure and bureaucracy built to carry out those atrocities.

Combined with the war just two decades gone by... how can the world ever forgive the German people??
Click to expand...

Shouldn't that be nearly seven decades by now?
And the world hasn't really totally forgiven germany yet. In so far as that, where everything they do, which involves using their power (mostly economical) is under scrutiny to see whether it might be a resurgence of nazi-ism.
It's getting less these days now.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
I'm just appalled considering both wars, and suspect there must be something about the German people themselves that would allow them to, say, starve and then bomb the Warsaw ghetto into submission.
Click to expand...

There is something about the German people that allows them to do this...they're human. They suffer the same human frailty that the rest of us do when surrounded by peer pressure, social expectation, misplaced loyalty, propaganda etc. etc.
 
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Monketey Ghost said:
I'm just appalled considering both wars, and suspect there must be something about the German people themselves that would allow them to, say, starve and then bomb the Warsaw ghetto into submission.

Wth??
Click to expand...

I've heard a theory that it's the authoritarian structure of the German family unit that led to the atrocities of WWI and WWII. Absolute submission to authority, arbitrary and inflexible rules, and highly polarized parent-child relationships have long been part of growing up in Germany. I believe someone even predicted WWII based on this, saying Germany could never be a civilized country as long as their culture was so inflexible and authority-driven.

German authorities are conscious of the problem. They even came up with a word for German attitudes towards its children: Kindunfreundlich.
 
erwinl said:
Shouldn't that be nearly seven decades by now?
And the world hasn't really totally forgiven germany yet. In so far as that, where everything they do, which involves using their power (mostly economical) is under scrutiny to see whether it might be a resurgence of nazi-ism.
It's getting less these days now.
Click to expand...

Sorry I wasn't clear. By two decades, I meant the two decades between the wars.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
In another thread I'd mentioned watching the series The World at War.

It's appalling what the Nazis did, in every country they occupied. It's horrible that so many German citizens ignored it, or were happy to benefit from it.

I understand that an entire generation had been conditioned by Nazi propaganda to think Jewish people inferior, and the German people naturally better.

But the systematic atrocities. The infrastructure and bureaucracy built to carry out those atrocities.

Combined with the war just two decades gone by... how can the world ever forgive the German people??
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be racist not to? The German people are no better or worse than any other people. They got led by the nose into all of this by charismatic leader(s), like you or I might have been. Let's not also forget the intimidation and bullying aspect of public opinion. Lesson learned (for the most part). Move on and try to do better.

It is a study in human psychology/sociology, and should be studied as such.
 
Monketey Ghost said:
It's horrible that so many German citizens ignored it, or were happy to benefit from it.
Click to expand...

I think this is just human nature. Unfortunately, a lot of people will turn a blind eye towards the suffering of others, especially if we are insulated from it.

It's why we today ignore the millions of people dying in Africa, at the same time we wring our hands over the deaths of a few hundred in Syria.

(Incidentally, this is how the Allies justified bombing cultural centers like Hamburg and Dresden during the war. The average Joe in Germany was indifferent to the misbehavior of its leadership because he wasn't feeling any of the pain. So the Allies brought the pain to the average Joe.)
 
Monketey Ghost said:
I'm just appalled considering both wars, and suspect there must be something about the German people themselves that would allow them to, say, starve and then bomb the Warsaw ghetto into submission.

Wth??

Some of the people who committed the atrocities are still alive. Old, but alive. This wasn't long ago. We're only coming up on the hundred year anniversary of the Big One.
Click to expand...

Atrocities, grave injustices and public turning a blind eye are still alive globally, Monketey. Only the scale is different.
 
aggle-rithm said:
I've heard a theory that it's the authoritarian structure of the German family unit that led to the atrocities of WWI and WWII. Absolute submission to authority, arbitrary and inflexible rules, and highly polarized parent-child relationships have long been part of growing up in Germany. I believe someone even predicted WWII based on this, saying Germany could never be a civilized country as long as their culture was so inflexible and authority-driven.

German authorities are conscious of the problem. They even came up with a word for German attitudes towards its children: Kindunfreundlich.
Click to expand...

And the feeling of national humiliation due to the treaty ending WW1- that was a big reason the Nazi party got popular, the promise of a strong Germany.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Atrocities, grave injustices and public turning a blind eye are still alive globally, Monketey. Only the scale is different.
Click to expand...

Truly. Well noted.
And maybe what I feel is from having watched this documentary.
There have been other genocides, but I want to talk about the German Nazi genocide.
"Let's not argue about who killed who..."
 
Monketey Ghost said:
But the systematic atrocities. The infrastructure and bureaucracy built to carry out those atrocities.

Combined with the war just two decades gone by... how can the world ever forgive the German people??
Click to expand...

Are you giving the Japanese a pass?
 
Like I said, this is about Germany.

Not Bosnia, not the Bataan death march.

German atrocities.
 
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