exarch
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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It's just finished. The general message was:
Vitamin C: Does not prevent you from catching the cold, despite what some Nobel prize winning chemist once said. It does seem to reduce the time and severity of a cold once you've already caught it.
Vitamin E: Is an anti-oxidant which apparently takes care of detrimental "free radicals" that could damage your tissue. It works, but it's fat-soluble, so you need to take it with some fat or fatty foods, unless your vitamin supplements contain fat as well. Otherwise, the body just won't absorb them.
Beta-carotene: Which the body transforms into vitamin A, caused an 80% increase in the risk of catching lung cancer for smokers.
Vitamin A: Causes osteoporosis and an increased risk of bone-breakage after prolonged usage, even in as little a dose as twice the daily recommended intake. Most people are already close to that level with a normal, healthy diet.
It can also cause liver damage when taken in high quantities over a period of several years.
Prolonged use, in all cases, was a period of several years.
Bottom line, vitamin supplements are not really all that necessary if you eat healthy and include lots of fruits and vegetables in your diet (not shying away from nuts and fatter foods like fish). Or to put it differently, if you eat healthy, you won't get sick (Duhh!!).
So don't compensate for a shoddy diet by taking huge amounts of vitamins, because it's both useless and potentially dangerous.
Vitamin C: Does not prevent you from catching the cold, despite what some Nobel prize winning chemist once said. It does seem to reduce the time and severity of a cold once you've already caught it.
Vitamin E: Is an anti-oxidant which apparently takes care of detrimental "free radicals" that could damage your tissue. It works, but it's fat-soluble, so you need to take it with some fat or fatty foods, unless your vitamin supplements contain fat as well. Otherwise, the body just won't absorb them.
Beta-carotene: Which the body transforms into vitamin A, caused an 80% increase in the risk of catching lung cancer for smokers.
Vitamin A: Causes osteoporosis and an increased risk of bone-breakage after prolonged usage, even in as little a dose as twice the daily recommended intake. Most people are already close to that level with a normal, healthy diet.
It can also cause liver damage when taken in high quantities over a period of several years.
Prolonged use, in all cases, was a period of several years.
Bottom line, vitamin supplements are not really all that necessary if you eat healthy and include lots of fruits and vegetables in your diet (not shying away from nuts and fatter foods like fish). Or to put it differently, if you eat healthy, you won't get sick (Duhh!!).
So don't compensate for a shoddy diet by taking huge amounts of vitamins, because it's both useless and potentially dangerous.
Hellbound
Merchant of Doom
joyrex said:
In general, yes, but it's flexible. The dangerous amounts of most vitamins are much higher than recommended dosages, so a little extra won't hurt you. Also, a smaller person needs smaller amounts. It's the same way with medications; effective dosages are based on body weight. OTC meds base dosages on average weights, as again the amounts are not lethal in a broad range around the "correct" dosages.
Now, I don't know if this holds true for absolutely every vitamin or mineral, but generally they should be based on size (or a percentage based on your daily food intake, which in a roundabout way is the same thing). Requirements do vary, due to size, metabolism, appetite, specific ways your body handles them, etc. However, it's not something one needs to worry about. It's much like the fact that larger bodys and more active people need more food to maintain themselves. Eat a balanced diet, and you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
Rolfe
Adult human female
As I heard it, it was 18%.exarch said:
There will be a transcript posted on the BBC web site, if it isn't there already.
Oh, all right then.... Horizon: the truth about vitamins (just a summary, transcript not yet posted).
Rolfe.
exarch
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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I may have misheard eighteen for eighty :/
Anyway, it's clear that this vitamin is dangerous even in smaller doses, so this is the only one they actually warned about not using in high dosages (i.e. more than your daily required intake). The others were no problem, as they seem to just have no effect even if you take much more than required. In other words, eat healthy and you don't need the supplements anyway (hence the word "supplements").
So the vitamin poppers are probably just wasting their money, at the risk of causing unknown damage by introducing loads of foreign chemicals for no other reason than hoping this will make them healthier.
I taped it and showed it to my low level year 10 class. We're doing cells and nutrition at the moment, so it all fits perfectly with the course.
They were pretty amazed, as most of them either take supplements or know people who do. A couple tried arguing that as they didn't eat fresh fruit or vegetables, they needed supplements. I asked why they didn't incude fruit and veg' in their diet, and most admitted they simply didn't like it.
I grew up eating fresh fuit and vegetables, and have never questioned it. There are some things I don't like to eat, but I have a balanced diet anyway. The nonsense about not having time to eat a healthy diet is ridiculous -- the fastest meals to make contain fresh vegetables, and nothing is faster than grabbing an apple whilst on the way out the door.
Society is still after cheap, easy benefits. Our canteen at school should be burnt down; it sells trash to the kids, who should get into the habit of eating fruit instead of candy.
Athon
They were pretty amazed, as most of them either take supplements or know people who do. A couple tried arguing that as they didn't eat fresh fruit or vegetables, they needed supplements. I asked why they didn't incude fruit and veg' in their diet, and most admitted they simply didn't like it.
I grew up eating fresh fuit and vegetables, and have never questioned it. There are some things I don't like to eat, but I have a balanced diet anyway. The nonsense about not having time to eat a healthy diet is ridiculous -- the fastest meals to make contain fresh vegetables, and nothing is faster than grabbing an apple whilst on the way out the door.
Society is still after cheap, easy benefits. Our canteen at school should be burnt down; it sells trash to the kids, who should get into the habit of eating fruit instead of candy.
Athon
Rolfe
Adult human female
The thing that struck me most forcefully about this programme was that the vitamin proponents really believed that β-carotene would protect from lung cancer. It was only because they were scientists and took the trouble to design and carry out several large-scale controlled trials that the awful truth was revealed.
Same with the retinol. The Swedish government was obviously pretty certain that supplementation was beneficial, when it decided to fortify skimmed milk products with the stuff. Only some very searching scrutiny started to reveal the reason why Sweden had so much more than its fair share of people with osteoporosis.
I started thinking about all the "health foods" that haven't been subjected to the same rigorous testing. The kooks happily proclaim the benefits of any sort of snake-oil that takes their fancy, and nobody makes them either substantiate the claims or look to see of there might be significant long-term side-effects. Of course if the stuff is grossly poisonous (remember "organic germanium"?, and I'm sure there have been others) then it does usually get rumbled, but something like increasing your chance of osteoporosis in later life by 40%, or increasing your chance of lung cancer by 18% isn't going to get spotted without some very serious number-crunching. Especially when most consumers of the stuff never even get that consumption entered on their medical records because they never tell their doctor.
The really sad bit is that the minute anyone starts proposing any restrictions on these things, or forcing the manufacturers to spend some of their profits on proper trials, the great brainwashed public starts protesting that its right to the supplements it needs is being violated.
Fruitcakes.
Rolfe.
Same with the retinol. The Swedish government was obviously pretty certain that supplementation was beneficial, when it decided to fortify skimmed milk products with the stuff. Only some very searching scrutiny started to reveal the reason why Sweden had so much more than its fair share of people with osteoporosis.
I started thinking about all the "health foods" that haven't been subjected to the same rigorous testing. The kooks happily proclaim the benefits of any sort of snake-oil that takes their fancy, and nobody makes them either substantiate the claims or look to see of there might be significant long-term side-effects. Of course if the stuff is grossly poisonous (remember "organic germanium"?, and I'm sure there have been others) then it does usually get rumbled, but something like increasing your chance of osteoporosis in later life by 40%, or increasing your chance of lung cancer by 18% isn't going to get spotted without some very serious number-crunching. Especially when most consumers of the stuff never even get that consumption entered on their medical records because they never tell their doctor.
The really sad bit is that the minute anyone starts proposing any restrictions on these things, or forcing the manufacturers to spend some of their profits on proper trials, the great brainwashed public starts protesting that its right to the supplements it needs is being violated.
Fruitcakes.
Rolfe.
To be fair, I'm really amazed as to how much interest my 10's are taking in it. They were still asking questions today; they seemed concerned that something they had always assumed was beneficial, and were told were good for them, actually could possibly harm them. They were asking some really hard questions, and it was a great discussion that most of them had taken home to their family.
One girl has even stopped taking supplements, as she thinks her diet is not all that bad, and was trying to convince her mother to do the same.
These are low level learners. We have hope, folks.
Athon
One girl has even stopped taking supplements, as she thinks her diet is not all that bad, and was trying to convince her mother to do the same.
These are low level learners. We have hope, folks.
Athon
exarch
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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The show definitely had three distinct messages:
1. Some vitamins don't do anything at all when taken in larger than needed doses (i.e. vitamin C).
2. Some vitamins can be beneficial in larger doses, although as of yet unconfirmed (i.e. vitamin E) and they have to be taken correctly.
3. Some vitamins are downright dangerous when taken in large doses (i.e beta-caroteen and retinol).
All in all, stick with the daily recommended dose for maximum benefit and financial savings.
1. Some vitamins don't do anything at all when taken in larger than needed doses (i.e. vitamin C).
2. Some vitamins can be beneficial in larger doses, although as of yet unconfirmed (i.e. vitamin E) and they have to be taken correctly.
3. Some vitamins are downright dangerous when taken in large doses (i.e beta-caroteen and retinol).
All in all, stick with the daily recommended dose for maximum benefit and financial savings.