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Homo Erectus: Evolution Problem or Dating Issue?

Vixen

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The family tree of the hominids has just one family member left and that is us, the Homo sapiens. There has been much discussion as to why the other hominid branches died out, for example Homo neanderthalensis. One group of hominids the Homo erectus, so called because this is when man evolved from shuffling along on its back legs using the forearms as leverage to standing and walking upright. They were thought to have evolved into other branches such as the Homo hobbitus ( so named because of its short stature) and Homo floresiensis some of which were thought to have started becoming extinct up to 500 thousand years ago when Homo Sapiens was first thought to have evolved. The missing link between advanced primates such as the bonobo chimpanzee to man has yet to be discovered,

What the scientists look for is evidence of hominds becoming upright to take the massive evolutionary leap into walking, hence great excitement whenever primate footprints are found embedded in ancient stone suggesting this.

From fossil findings of Homo Erectus skulls found in Java, Indonesia, some scientists in the 1990's believed Homo Erectus was still around as little as 39,000 years ago - roughly the time when Homo Sapiens spread into Europe, Neanderthal Man having already been there at least 43,000 years ago with some dispute that they had ever emigrated from Africa at all, with some believing there had been three set of different groups of Homo X, Y and Z developing side by side at the same time in different parts of the world.

The current establishment view is that of Professor Chris Stringer, who firmly established that 'all humans came out of Africa', in a clear line of evolution. In other words, a single chain. However, the reader should be aware that not all scientists agree with this. Hence, the fascination of the new find which is dated at just 112,000 years ago as it seems to indicate Homo Erectus was around after the first humans evolved in Africa >500K years ago and before they first migrated out of the continent between 50K - 75K years ago. This throws doubt on the lineal theory of human evolution, which in comic strips is depicted as beginning with a hunkering down chimpanzee to a neanderthal with dragging knuckles gradually becoming upright [before evolving into Homer Simpson {is the popular punchline}].

So, it will be interesting to see how Chris Stringer analyses this new find.

Prof Chris Stringer, research leader on human evolution at London's Natural History Museum, who was not involved with the work, commented: "This is a very comprehensive study of the depositional context of the famous Ngandong Homo erectus partial skulls and shin bones, and the authors build a strong case that these individuals died and were washed into the deposits of the Solo River about 112,000 years ago.

"This age is very young for such primitive-looking Homo erectus fossils, and establishes that the species persisted on Java for well over one million years."

<snip>



But why did Homo erectus survive so late on Java? In Africa, the species was probably gone by 500,000 years ago; in China it vanished some 400,000 years ago. Russell Ciochon thinks that it was probably outcompeted by other human species elsewhere, but Java's location allowed it to thrive in isolation.

However, the results show the fossils came from a period when environmental conditions on Java were changing. What were once open woodlands were transforming into rainforest. Prof Ciochon thinks this could mark the exact point of extinction of Homo erectus on the island.

Last appearance?
No Homo erectus are found after this time, he explained, and there's a gap with no human activity at all until Homo sapiens turns up on Java around 39,000 years ago. Prof Ciochon believes H. erectus was too dependent on the open savannah and too inflexible to adapt to life in a rainforest.

"Homo sapiens is the only hominin species that lives in a tropical forest," he explained. "I think it's mainly because of the cultural attributes of Homo sapiens - the ability to make all these specialised tools."

"Once this rainforest flora and fauna spread across Java, that's the end of erectus."

But Chris Stringer sounded a note of caution.

"The authors claim that this is therefore the last known occurrence of the species, and that this indicates there was no overlap of the species with Homo sapiens in Java, as H. sapiens arrived much later," he said.

"I'm not convinced about that as other supposedly late Homo erectus material from Javanese sites like Ngawi and Sambungmacan remain to be properly dated, and they may be younger still. Alternatively, they may correlate with the ages of the Ngandong fossils, but that should be the next stage of investigation."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50827603

Perhaps a hint of scepticism from Professor Stringer, there, about the conclusions being drawn that whilst Homo Erectus died out as a result of being outcompeted by Homo Sapiens, on Java this didn't happen - the theory being put - because they were not subject to the same competition as elsewhere.
 
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This throws doubt on the lineal theory of human evolution, which in comic strips is depicted as beginning with a hunkering down chimpanzee to a neanderthal with dragging knuckles gradually becoming upright [before evolving into Homer Simpson {is the popular punchline}].

I can't see why it would do that; how is the survival of an earlier branch of hominids into comparatively recent times, due to a population being isolated in specific conditions that favoured its survival, any different to the survival into the present of the coelocanth, helmet crab or tuatera?

Dave
 
Is this one of those old-school "minor anomaly in paleontology findings proves Creationism" threads? It's been a while.
 
I can't see why it would do that; how is the survival of an earlier branch of hominids into comparatively recent times, due to a population being isolated in specific conditions that favoured its survival, any different to the survival into the present of the coelocanth, helmet crab or tuatera?

Dave

Because coelocanths, helmet crabs and tuatara don't appear on the hominin branch of human evolution.

The actual lesson from this is not to base your views of evolution on comic strips.
 
Chickens evolved from a jungle fowl in Asia. Does the fact that that jungle fowl still exists mean chickens don't?

There is nothing about a part of homo erectus surviving in a part of the world that makes it impossible for another branch of homo erectus to be the progenitors of homo sapiens.
If anything it just shows how tenacious we are as a species. Homo neanderthalis also hung on for a long time in some remote places.
 
The current establishment view is that of Professor Chris Stringer, who firmly established that 'all humans came out of Africa', in a clear line of evolution. In other words, a single chain. However, the reader should be aware that not all scientists agree with this.


IMO The Recent African origin model is more about migration than order of evolution. If you look at any chart of how humans evolved over time there will be no linear pattern, there will be a branching one. I don't see how this new find is a problem for any existing model.
 
Here's a good example, see the first chart: https://biologydictionary.net/fossil-record/

This new find just means that "lobe" representing Homo erectus extends a little bit further up in to the Homo sapiens, like Homo neanderthalensis does.


ETA: BTW I believe the width of those branches/nodes is meant to depict the geographic extent of the species. So this new top of the lobe for Homo erectus would be a very narrow extension of that lobe.
 
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Chickens evolved from a jungle fowl in Asia. Does the fact that that jungle fowl still exists mean chickens don't?

There is nothing about a part of homo erectus surviving in a part of the world that makes it impossible for another branch of homo erectus to be the progenitors of homo sapiens.
If anything it just shows how tenacious we are as a species. Homo neanderthalis also hung on for a long time in some remote places.

Consider the Chicken!

Basically, the OP sounds like the tired old creationist "Why are there still monkeys?" trope.
 
Homo erectus and Neanderthals have met a similar fate. They were outcompeted by Cro Magnon man. Their genes are not entirely extinct as both Neanderthal and Homo erectus DNA is currently in modern man.

An apparent massacre of Homo Erectus by modern man shows something interesting. There are no females of childbearing age among the victims. Were these female hominids carried off and is their genetic signature still a part of modern man?
 
An apparent massacre of Homo Erectus by modern man shows something interesting. There are no females of childbearing age among the victims. Were these female hominids carried off and is their genetic signature still a part of modern man?


The origins of Traditional Biblical Marriage.
 
An apparent massacre of Homo Erectus by modern man shows something interesting. There are no females of childbearing age among the victims. Were these female hominids carried off and is their genetic signature still a part of modern man?
citation please
 

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