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Hollywood under arson alert

Graham2001

Graduate Poster
Graham2001
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Messages
1,771
Interesting, I wonder just what 'motivation' is going to be claimed by those arrested.

Los Angeles firefighters remain on arson alert after the Hollywood district celebrated the new year under the cloud of a string of some 40 deliberately set fires.

...

At least two people are under arrest, according to media reports, including a 22-year-old man charged with starting three fires on Thursday. But they were behind bars on Friday and Saturday night when new blazes were set.
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http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8397369
 
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I wonder if it started as one arsonist, but now there are loads of copycats. If so, I hope the copycats don't make their way down here.
 
The Feds are involved now:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2011/1231/Feds-chasing-fast-moving-Hollywood-arsonists
Since Thursday, suspected arsonists have set at least 30 car fires in a compact area of densely-developed Hollywood and West Hollywood, including around the famed Laurel Canyon area, where a car parked in front of a home once occupied by the late Doors' frontman Jim Morrison burned Friday morning, setting part of the home aflame.

Police say they have two people in custody, but the fire-setting continued Saturday morning.

Fire officials said the fires could be the work of a serial arsonist or a copycat culprit traveling between scenes on a motorcycle or even a bicycle. Saturday's fires came even as the fire department urged locals to keep their eyes open and stay vigilant.

So far, investigators have scant evidence to go on, as the perpetrators have for the most part appeared to have avoided video surveillance cameras. A $35,000 reward has been posted to entice residents with information about the fires to come forward.

While no one has been hurt, several homes and carports have sustained serious damage, raising the alarm at the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which has sent agents to Hollywood.
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So the Door's frontman front door got scorched? And here I thought Jim was a back door man.
 
This is a really weird situation and it might have been going on in my back yard for quite a while.

About six or seven years ago, sometime near Christmas, there was an arson fire in my carport. Two weeks after that, the building on the other side of the block was hit. I didn't hear about anything else until the next Christmas when there was another carport fire a few blocks away.

I thought that they had caught the guy and maybe they did. (A quick search for the newspaper article is only turning up recent stuff.) Maybe this is some other arsonist with a penchant for lighting up dingbats*. All I know for sure is that there are tons of helicopters overhead right now (1 AM-ish) and the sirens have been going all night.

*A type of LA architecture. 2 story apartment building with a carport on the ground level, often in front of the building.
 
They are "confident" they have the right person (of course, the LAPD was confident they had the right person in the Bryan Stowe beating and they were wrong).

The latest rumor is the dude is a German national.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
They are "confident" they have the right person (of course, the LAPD was confident they had the right person in the Bryan Stowe beating and they were wrong).

The latest rumor is the dude is a German national.
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I really hope this is him. Carport fires are terrifying, huge flames, explosion-like sounds, all the alarms going off. The fire in my building destroyed two apartments on either side of me and 12 cars. I could see the flames over the roof. The second degree burns on my feet kinda sucked, too.

There's one strange thing that's always bugged me. - After the fire next door, I spoke with one of the firefighters at the scene and asked him about the possibility of an arsonist. He said that it was unlikely because - and here's the weird part - older cars have been known to explode without cause. At my disbelieving look (because seriously? Spontaneous auto combustion?) he said something about gas leaking from the carburetor.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?
 
In older motorcycles the gas was gravity feed into the carburetor float bowl (talking early 70’s) so a leaky carburetor was an issue if you didn’t turn your petcock off. Towards the 80’s most had a spring valve in the petcock that only opened by the vacuum generated by the engine (engine has to be turning over for gas to flow). Around those same times most cars had fuel pumps mechanically driven by the engine (70’s again). Since the pump was located in the engine compartment, damage to or a leak in the fuel line could cause gas to siphon out of the tank. As cars moved from carburetors to what were called “throttle bodies” (one injector body over the intake manifold) to full fuel injection (injection into each cylinder) this required higher and more stable fuel pressure than with most mechanical fuel pumps. Electric fuel pumps located in the tank began to become the norm and although this meant that a fuel leak after the tank would spray high pressure gasoline (not a good situation) it did mean that a siphoning leak was less likely. So yes he was correct the move away from carburetors drove the relocation of the fuel pump and with less parts and no reservoir (the float bowl) you’re less likely to have a leak just sitting there and if there is one it won’t be a gravity driven siphon. That said, the high pressures involved in today’s systems carries their own risks as when pressurized and sprayed, gasoline can become a flame thrower.
 
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The Man said:
In older motorcycles the gas was gravity feed into the carburetor float bowl (talking early 70’s) so a leaky carburetor was an issue if you didn’t turn your petcock off. Towards the 80’s most had a spring valve in the petcock that only opened by the vacuum generated by the engine (engine has to be turning over for gas to flow). Around those same times most cars had fuel pumps mechanically driven by the engine (70’s again). Since the pump was located in the engine compartment, damage to or a leak in the fuel line could cause gas to siphon out of the tank. As cars moved from carburetors to what were called “throttle bodies” (one injector body over the intake manifold) to full fuel injection (injection into each cylinder) this required higher and more stable fuel pressure than with most mechanical fuel pumps. Electric fuel pumps located in the tank began to become the norm and although this meant that a fuel leak after the tank would spray high pressure gasoline (not a good situation) it did mean that a siphoning leak was less likely. So yes he was correct the move away from carburetors drove the relocation of the fuel pump and with less parts and no reservoir (the float bowl) you’re less likely to have a leak just sitting there and if there is one it won’t be a gravity driven siphon. That said, the high pressures involved in today’s systems carries their own risks as when pressurized and sprayed, gasoline can become a flame thrower.
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Thank you, this answers a lot of questions. If there is a gas leak in an older car, there is the possibility that the gas can be ignited by a stray spark - tossed cigarette, electrical short or what have you.

It's not quite the same thing as randomly exploding cars but it does explain what the firefighter was trying to say.
 
Lisa Simpson said:
I wonder if it started as one arsonist, but now there are loads of copycats. If so, I hope the copycats don't make their way down here.
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There was probably a big budget arsonist, a cheaper version who became active around the same time, and then a slew of low rent knockoffs following in their wake.
 
bookitty said:
Thank you, this answers a lot of questions. If there is a gas leak in an older car, there is the possibility that the gas can be ignited by a stray spark - tossed cigarette, electrical short or what have you.

It's not quite the same thing as randomly exploding cars but it does explain what the firefighter was trying to say.
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No problem, well so much for spontaneous auto combustion.
 
The Man said:
No problem, well so much for spontaneous auto combustion.
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As an additional note, the car fires in the neighborhood all took place in a low-roofed enclosed space with 4-8 tightly packed cars in a neighborhood that had a greater percentage of older vehicles. If one or more had some type of leak, the fumes would not dissipate as quickly as a car parked in the open. A single car parked in an enclosed garage might have the same problem. I wonder what percentage of non-arson house fires start in the garage?
 
bookitty said:
Thank you, this answers a lot of questions. If there is a gas leak in an older car, there is the possibility that the gas can be ignited by a stray spark - tossed cigarette, electrical short or what have you.

It's not quite the same thing as randomly exploding cars but it does explain what the firefighter was trying to say.
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Not a tossed cigarette......both Mythbusters and Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics had that very thoroughly tested. Doesn't work.:):):):)
 
fuelair said:
Not a tossed cigarette......both Mythbusters and Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics had that very thoroughly tested. Doesn't work.:):):):)
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Really? That is so cool and there's high entertainment possibility in researching it. Thanks! :)
 
fuelair said:
Not a tossed cigarette......both Mythbusters and Insultingly Stupid Movie Physics had that very thoroughly tested. Doesn't work.:):):):)
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I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that a lit cigarette cannot ignite gasoline?
 
OnlyTellsTruths said:
I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that a lit cigarette cannot ignite gasoline?
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I am saying that both of those sources tested it (rather thoroughly from the descriptions of the test in the book* and the visual/descriptions in the Mythbusters show). The problems are :cigarette design and burning temp., the quantity of vapor and oxygen that allows burning of gasoline in the first place and the surprising fact that in a puddle of gasoline the cigarette is actually extinguished by the gasoline.

Related to that, the new Penn and Teller Lie show attempted to have a (.50 caliber)bullet go through a gas tank and only when a tracer round was fired did it burn - I missed the end so I do not know if that was the lie, but I suspect it might have been as the others found even a tracer (though they used a smaller caliber - not a .50) would not ignite the gasoline unless it had had time to vaporize in air to the proper mix with oxygen.

That is why the movies use sparkers of some sort and charges to make sure things go up in flame when they are needed to!!

* flipped, held with long poles with clamp for cigarette or gasoline flowed toward. Didn't even work when the lit cig was in perfect position over the gas so that the fume/oxygen ratio was right for an exposion otherwise.

The thinking of the heavier researched group is that cigarettes are designed to keep temperature reasonable for the smoker - so cigs don't burn right up into the face or just combust away on lighting. That means not hot enough, flamey or fast burning enough to work. I am fairly sure that also covers pipes and cigars, but those were not tested as far as I saw, heard or read.
 
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