Hillary shows her true color - yellow

username

Muse
U
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Messages
837
hillary gets religious

There have been many news articles suggesting the democratic party was considering moving to a more religious chatter focus in order to sway voters in the 'red' states.

Hillary has been an outspoken supporter and defender of abortion rights since forever.

Now she is adopting religious fuzzy warm feelings and words and is reaching out to religious folks who are opposed to abortion under any circumstances.

I just don't understand how these people (democrats like Hillary) can be so stupid.

What person who presently supports Bush on 'moral' issues is going to actually believe that Hillary is really seeing the light and warming to religious conservative values?

This sellout is expected to run for president in 2008 and as such she is clearly trying to position herself as a moderate within the current political trends.

Honestly I would rather vote for Bush for a third term (not really) than vote for this sellout.

Have some freaking principles and stand for them.

Anyone else disgusted by this blatant pandering?

I really hope Hillary doesn't get the nomination in 2008.
 
username said:
I really hope Hillary doesn't get the nomination in 2008.
Click to expand...

Don't worry. Her chance is about as big as Al Sharpton's.
 
Hillary Clinton would be an effective president.

I would have preferred her to any of the 2004 Dems, and she would likely make a better president than any of the probably 2008 Dem crowd.

If a Democrat wins in 2008, I prefer her to do so.

Of course, I would prefer almost any Republican over her.

MattJ
 
You have a point, username, but she's smarter than that. She knows that after two months of laughing at her obviously insinsere flattery, the papers will start talking about her "amazing and genuine transformation", which originally "some cynics" doubted, but now seems to be "real".

If she keeps up the act, she might convince quite a few people in 2008... you don't really have to be sincere, you just have to keep up the game a few months at a time. This isn't the first time something like this happened in politics, to put it no stronger than that.
 
She has alo got to include the words God and Jesus in more of her speeches. She will get the votes of those people that cannot stop themselves from yelling out "Halleluja" when they hear them...
 
Hillary for president in 2008 would be a disaster for the Democrats. The Republicans are drooling at the possibility of a Hillary run. She would energize the Republican's like no Republican candidate could.

As far as the "pandering", conservatives on this board have no problem when their candidates pander. It's a fact that this country is overwhelmingly religious. Without getting their share of the religious voters, the Democrats will become more of a minority then they are now.

You may call it lack of principles or pandering, others might call it broadening their appeal. What's the alternative, running neck and neck with Nadar and whatever Libertarian loony floats to the top?
 
As far as the "pandering", conservatives on this board have no problem when their candidates pander. It's a fact that this country is overwhelmingly religious.
Click to expand...

Thing is I don't agree that the US is overwhelmingly religious. I think the US is overwhelmingly predjudiced and we use religion to support our predjudices.

Sure 90% may say they believe in some concept of a god, but what percentage are actually fundy type christians?

Instead we have people who are uncomfortable with homosexuality, folks who think a particular race has something wrong with them whether that race be Africans, Arabs, Hispanics or whatever. Lots of predjudices and religion is an easy way to dress up the predjudice as holiness.

Where I think democrats go wrong is that they are wishy washy and stand for nothing. I hate what GWB stands for, but I give the man credit, he does in fact stand for something. What do democrats like Clinton stand for?

Dean is not a guy I really agree with that much, but he stood for something and the Clinton wing of the democratic party saw to it that he was derailed.

The "watch the polls" Clintons are what is wrong with the democratic party.

Bill Clinton 'advised' Kerry on what to say during his campaign. The guy is a snake without principle. Why not just say what you mean and use advisors only to word things in the most effective manner? Why employ people to tell you how to say what the voting blocks you wish to appeal to want to hear?

Frankly I think the decline of the democratic party has less to do with thier not wearing god on their sleeve than it has to do with their wearing a badge that says "tell me what you want to hear" on their sleeve.
 
Say what you want about her, Hillary is one smart woman. There is common ground on this issue between these two camps, and she found it.

The speech was also notable for a stream of statistics and data that, Mrs. Clinton's aides said afterward, were included to underscore her view that the reduction of "unwanted pregnancies" could be a unifying issue for supporters and opponents of abortion rights.

At one point, for instance, she drew gasps from some in the audience by mentioning that 7 percent of American women who do not use contraception account for 53 percent of all unintended pregnancies.
Click to expand...

If opponents of abortion can't get behind legalizing abortions, they can certainly get behind reducing the total number of abortions. After all, it's less murder, right?

At the same time, proponents of abortions also tend to be proponents of sex education which encourages contraception...which reduces the need for abortions.

Also, getting the word out that such a large number of unintended pregnancies come from a relatively small population of women who don't use contraception pulls the rug out from under the ultra-conservative abstinence based sex-education and gets the religious anti-abortion crowd behind the more realistic based sex-ed that teaches about birth control.

It’s a win-win. Everyone gets something they want, and the stalemate is broken. This is politics at its best. It’s not selling out, it’s not pandering, it’s not lying to get support. It’s leadership.

Oh yeah, and here is an interesting book that describes how biblical/religious values are very much the realm of the left side of the political spectrum, the progressives and the democrats, not the republicans.

God's Politics : Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It

My opinion: It should be required reading for everyone who thinks of themselves as more blue than red.
 
Mycroft said:
Oh yeah, and here is an interesting book that describes how biblical/religious values are very much the realm of the left side of the political spectrum, the progressives and the democrats, not the republicans.

God's Politics : Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It

My opinion: It should be required reading for everyone who thinks of themselves as more blue than red.
Click to expand...
Thanks, time to visit my local citizen supported library again :)
 
Mycroft said:
This is politics at its best. It’s not selling out, it’s not pandering, it’s not lying to get support. It’s leadership.
Click to expand...

I concede that it is possible. The question I have is if this is leadership why did Hillary wait all these years to advocate this position? Why didn't she advocate this while first lady instead of being so strongly in favor of abortion rights? Why did she wait until after Kerry lost the presidency over 'moral values'? Why did she wait until after the Clinton wing of the dem party stated they have to do a better job of pandering to the south and predjudiced religious folks?

It may very well end up being politically brilliant, the Clintons are indeed shrewd politicians, but I don't for an instant believe there is any actual conviction behind the posturing Hillary is presently engaging in.
 
Mycroft said:
It’s a win-win. Everyone gets something they want, and the stalemate is broken. This is politics at its best. It’s not selling out, it’s not pandering, it’s not lying to get support. It’s leadership.
Click to expand...
With the obvious caveat that we can never know intentions, I agree.

The notion of Hilary as president doesn't bother me at all. The notion of Hilary as democratic nominee is a nightmare.
 
Originally posted by username
I concede that it is possible. The question I have is if this is leadership why did Hillary wait all these years to advocate this position?
Click to expand...

I'm not privy to her thoughts, but the most likely answers are:

1) In politics, you fight the battles you can win. It could be simply that she/they didn't feel the time was right before.

2) She may have just thought of it. You don't enter politics (or anything) with all your thoughts and opinions fully formed. We all continue to learn and develope as we grow older. It's very likely that after the election (where the Dems got slapped pretty hard) Hillary or some of her staff did some hard thinking about how to reach out to people they had never reached out to before.

The truth here is the Democrats are in a downward spiral, and it's going to take some "thinking outside the box" like this to recover. When it's about vapid slogans and standing by principles, they lose. They need to figure out ways to carry their message to people who have been unresponsive before, and maybe even modify the message to win back lost support.

Originally posted by username
It may very well end up being politically brilliant, the Clintons are indeed shrewd politicians, but I don't for an instant believe there is any actual conviction behind the posturing Hillary is presently engaging in.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me like you've formed your opinions on the Clintons based on what their enemies say about them. That's not smart. If you're going to hate them, hate them for what they are. Check out these books:

My Life

Living History

Read them and make your opinion an educated opinion.
 
varwoche said:
The notion of Hilary as president doesn't bother me at all. The notion of Hilary as democratic nominee is a nightmare.
Click to expand...

That's because Democrats have allowed Republicans to dominate the debate. The reason the Clintons are demonized the way they are is because they are very smart and very effective.
 
Hillary

Yep, Hillary it seems knows exactly what she needs to do, to prepare for the next election.

She is just taking the steps necessary to appeal to a larger group of voters. She's just playing the game that is necessary to play.

Seems like typical politics to me. That's the way it goes.

She will most likely be a very strong contender for the nomination, and probably will stand a very good chance of being elected president. Just depends on how things are going and the situation in the world.
 
Mycroft said:
That's because Democrats have allowed Republicans to dominate the debate. The reason the Clintons are demonized the way they are is because they are very smart and very effective.
Click to expand...

I think the Clintons are demonized more for political selfishness than simply for being smart. Their maneuvers, though brilliant, are almost always transparently self-serving. At least that's how it looks from here.

BTW, I'm honored to have made your sig line. :)
 
ROFLMAO!

He's right Jocko...that line is priceless!

:big:

Gee,....the only sig line I ever get quoted in is AUP's or Demon's!
:( :o

-z
 
Would it be possible for someone sensibly to explain the whole fuss here? I read the statement she made and as far as I can tell she might as well have been reading the mission statement of Planned Parenthood, for crying out loud. This isn't someone changing their mind -- this is hardly even someone changing their rhetoric!

Have we gotten so ridiculous now that when a liberal gives a speech that doesn't explicitly say "I loathe America and all Americans! I think anyone who isn't a nasty creepy person should die!" they're accused of changing their rhetorical devices in order to get elected?
 
Shifting her beliefs in order to position herself as a candidate in 08!!! Who does she think she is..........RUDY GULIANI!!! O wait, she cant be Rudy, after all she has a job.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom