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here's something I've never been able to grasp

The Charnel Expanse

Muse
The Charnel Expanse
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
Messages
944
Why do so many CTers - particularly those in the freeman/militia movements and those who generally espouse "libertarian" viewpoints use The Constitution and violations thereof by the government and other various "shadowy elite" organizations as a core tenet of there beliefs while also vilifying Freemasons and putting them at the center of the malignant conspiracy to overthrow America and enslave us to the NWO?

Weren't most of the key framers of the Constitution Freemasons? And if that's the case wouldn't the entirety of the USA's existence be part of a Masonic conspiracy? :confused:
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Why do so many CTers - particularly those in the freeman/militia movements and those who generally espouse "libertarian" viewpoints use The Constitution and violations thereof by the government and other various "shadowy elite" organizations as a core tenet of there beliefs while also vilifying Freemasons and putting them at the center of the malignant conspiracy to overthrow America and enslave us to the NWO?

Weren't most of the key framers of the Constitution Freemasons? And if that's the case wouldn't the entirety of the USA's existence be part of a Masonic conspiracy? :confused:
Click to expand...

The Constitooshun gives them the right to be illogical, goddamit?

Are you a Communist?
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Why do so many CTers - particularly those in the freeman/militia movements and those who generally espouse "libertarian" viewpoints use The Constitution and violations thereof by the government and other various "shadowy elite" organizations as a core tenet of there beliefs while also vilifying Freemasons and putting them at the center of the malignant conspiracy to overthrow America and enslave us to the NWO?

Weren't most of the key framers of the Constitution Freemasons? And if that's the case wouldn't the entirety of the USA's existence be part of a Masonic conspiracy? :confused:
Click to expand...
The problem you are running into is that you have this information (founding fathers were freemasons) and you can relate that information to what someone is telling you.

That's two points (at least) that you have on the typical CTer.
1. He has no facts, just rubish spouted by twerps as ignorant as he is.
2. He wouldn't know logic if it walked up and presented its business card.

In those conditions, it is impossible for the CTer to "connect the dots" and arrive at an approximation of reality. The best they can do is connect the dots and arrive at Bozo the clown.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Why do so many CTers - particularly those in the freeman/militia movements and those who generally espouse "libertarian" viewpoints use The Constitution and violations thereof by the government and other various "shadowy elite" organizations as a core tenet of there beliefs while also vilifying Freemasons and putting them at the center of the malignant conspiracy to overthrow America and enslave us to the NWO?

Weren't most of the key framers of the Constitution Freemasons? And if that's the case wouldn't the entirety of the USA's existence be part of a Masonic conspiracy? :confused:
Click to expand...

They're working with the same brain cell (it's passed around) used by the people who carry signs saying:

"No socialized medicine!" and "Hands off Medicare!"

at the same time.
 
I'd really love to get some input on this from one of the real hardcore NWO believers.
It's no fun just to have one viewpoint represented in all the responses.
 
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If you want the NWO believers to reply, then I think you need to take a different tack.

Start a thread about how the founding fathers were in on the whole thing, then see how many nutcases crawl out of the woodwork. They'll either jump in on your side, which will tell you how soft in the head they are or they'll rant and rave against you which will tell you how deep they've been dyed red,white, and blue.

I don't think you'll get very far on this forum, though. The debunkers would be out in force, questioning your assertions and drowning the CTers with the noise.
 
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The Charnel Expanse said:
I'd really love to get some input on this from one of the real hardcore NWO believers.
Click to expand...

I think this movie (The New Atlantis) has the answers to your question. They speak to it in particular around 38:00

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5498106693746597344#

It seems like what they're saying is that the vast majority of the population at that time, including the founding fathers themselves, were sincere Christians. Even though many of the founders were Masons, they weren't THAT into it and were more influenced by their Christian beliefs. In the intervening time the esoteric/occult elements of Masonry and the other secret societies have gained power over the true Christian believers in a power struggle that has been going on for centuries.

Or something like that...

BOO!
 
Mountweazel said:
I think this movie (The New Atlantis) has the answers to your question. They speak to it in particular around 38:00

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5498106693746597344#

It seems like what they're saying is that the vast majority of the population at that time, including the founding fathers themselves, were sincere Christians. Even though many of the founders were Masons, they weren't THAT into it and were more influenced by their Christian beliefs. In the intervening time the esoteric/occult elements of Masonry and the other secret societies have gained power over the true Christian believers in a power struggle that has been going on for centuries.

Or something like that...

BOO!
Click to expand...
Unable to synchronize with facts. Not the least of which is the preponderance of Masonic imagery on American currency and landmarks which date back centuries.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Because the conspiracy theorists keep talking like you're trying, and, as we all know, they know what's going on. :p
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That's what makes it the perfect conspiracy. They're so busy worrying about what we're going to do, they don't realize that we've already put the NWO in place. My god, we put a Kenyan in the White House, what more proof do they need?
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
Why do so many CTers - particularly those in the freeman/militia movements and those who generally espouse "libertarian" viewpoints use The Constitution and violations thereof by the government and other various "shadowy elite" organizations as a core tenet of there beliefs while also vilifying Freemasons and putting them at the center of the malignant conspiracy to overthrow America and enslave us to the NWO?

Weren't most of the key framers of the Constitution Freemasons? And if that's the case wouldn't the entirety of the USA's existence be part of a Masonic conspiracy? :confused:
Click to expand...

I have also always found this ironic. When CTers find out I'm a freemason, I've been told I was everything from a Satanic high priest hell bent to commit child sacrafices to being told that I was a member of a shadowy cabal hell bent on world domination.

If CTers actually used their brains instead of believing in every cabal fantasy they come across, they would not vilify a organization whose founding tenets are equality, the brotherhood of all men, and freedom of religious (or non-religious) expression (the later particularly is championed by the Scottish Rite of freemasonry). They would find little to hate about an organization that has historically been demonized by those in power because it dared suggest all people are equal and that no one was better because of their social stature or anything else (which is why Hitler slaughtered so many).

But as we all know..when it comes to CTers, its not about the truth or reality. Its about whatever delusions pits best the CTers as a worthy pillar of truth and light against the unwashed NWO masses. The truth often doesn't fit well in such delusions.

And of course, to be historically accurate most of the framers of the US constitution did what they did because of their ideology, not because they were freemasons. A minority were masons, although there are some important well known names in that minority. But freemasons did not form this country...however, I do believe masonic ideals lead them to make many of the decisions we look back upon as being key to the formation of the country. They weren't perfect - but they are far from the evil cabal hell bent on world domination CTers wish they were.
 
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The Charnel Expanse said:
Unable to synchronize with facts. Not the least of which is the preponderance of Masonic imagery on American currency and landmarks which date back centuries.
Click to expand...

Yeah..the CTers in that were grasping at straws. After all, there is no "occult" side of Masonry - Masonry has no opinion on religion other than if you choose to be religious, you should be a good member of that religious community.

Also, I would argue that almost none of the imagery on the currency is masonic. The symbolism suggested by actual masons for the currency were lovely things like a turkey (instead of a phoenix) :) The pyramid is not masonic. The only image on there that has any link to freemasonry is the all seeing eye, and thats a weak one. The all seeing eye is a masonic symbol, representing (for masons who believe in God) the all-seeing eye of providence casting its protective gaze over the work of men. But as masonic symbols go, its a pretty minor one.

We do have lots of masonic landmarks, such as the George Washington Masonic Memorial or the House of the Temple in DC, but they are not government monuments. I am not aware of any explicit government owned building that has masonic imagery, except in cases where a lodge is sold off because the membership moves or can't afford the building and its taken over by a government office.
 
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