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Heavy drinkers saved mankind!

kittynh

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Reading an interesting book "Ghost Map" by STeven Johnson.

it's all about how a scientist and a minster figured out that cholera was caused by bad water, and not bad air.

The book talks about how in Western Society early "civilized' man needed to be able to drink alcohol to survive. Water was often impure and those that could drink a lot lived. Those that could not, died.

Societies that had good water supplies never developed this gene, such as many Native American tribes, and today alcoholism is rampant as frankly, they didn't have the winnowing out process of other cultures. They had clean water to drink.

here's a quote

"Dying of cirrhosis of the liver in your forties was better than dying of dysentery in your twenties."

If you have a lot of the enzyme "alcohol dehydrogenases" (look on chromosone 4) then thank your ancestors for drinking a lotta beer. (and other good stuff). Beer was very important for people living in close quarters.

The book deals with a big cholera outbreak, and the map shows clearly most of the deaths took place close to the tainted well. The interesting thing is that at the brewery right next to the well, no one died. The workers just drank the finished product rather than pump water.
 
In The Name of the Rose, Umberto Ecco also made the observation that monasteries were the rage for young men because monks seemed to live so much longer than townpeople. Of course, monks were known for their work in the brewing and distilling arts and alcohol figured prominently. OTOH, alcohol should not be solely credited for this effect as all man-made alcoholic drinks I know, except some grape wines, have to begin with a boiling step to extract the natural sugars out of the starting ingredients.

As for grape wine made without boiling, an infected batch is not drinkable as it is usually vinegar. So, in another sense, taste buds can also save your life if you stick with fermented drinks.
 
Kitty,
Verrrrry interesting. Now I know how I acquired some of my genes :)
 
I'm reading Survival of the Sickest which makes the same claims. The author also mentions that people of Asian descent have lower alcohol tolerance because they solved their bad water problem by boiling it and making teas rather than by adding alcohol.

She also talks about the evolutionary advantages of anemia, bad cholesterol, diabetes and more.
 
Loss Leader said:
I'm reading Survival of the Sickest which makes the same claims. The author also mentions that people of Asian descent have lower alcohol tolerance because they solved their bad water problem by boiling it and making teas rather than by adding alcohol.

.
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interesting stuff....

Asians are more likely to have a deficiency of ALDH....

The first step of alcohol metabolism involves the oxidation of ethanol into acetaldehyde. This occurs mainly in the liver via the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) which removes hydrogens. Acetaldehyde is then converted to acetate by aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH)
snip
An interesting phenomenon that occurs in some people is the familiar flushing of the face after low to moderate amounts of alcoholic beverage consumption (Luu et al., 1995). This alcohol-flush reaction occurs in some Caucasians, but is particularly common among Asians. Degrees of flushing can range from slightly pink, to bright red. The reaction has been found to be caused by a mutation in the structural gene for the mitochondrial aldehyde dehydrogenase (Takeshita et al., 1994). Approximately 500f Asians have a deficiency in low Km aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH2), which is the result of inheritance of a mutant ALDH2*2 allele (Wall et al., 1997). The mutation has the effect of both reducing enzyme activity and increasing the turnover of this activity (WWW3).
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http://sulcus.berkeley.edu/mcb/165_001/papers/manuscripts/_298.html

I always used to feel rather sorry for those that suffered from "Asian flush" when i was in Japan [estimates put it as high as 50% - but annecdotally i'd say it was nearer 5-10%]....such is the drinking culture and enforced cultural norms, that sufferers would be forced to drink along with their work colleagues at enkais [office parties - often compulsory and often around $70] even though within 10 minutes of their first drink they'd be bright red, nauseous and having a very poor time.....
 
well I know a lot of woos that point to things like how medicine used to bleed people and such for their distrust of doctors.

Survival of the Sickest sounds great.

Have to get that on my reading list pronto!
 
kittynh said:
well I know a lot of woos that point to things like how medicine used to bleed people and such for their distrust of doctors.
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It turns out bleeding is the best treatment for hemochromatosis (an inability of the body to rid itself of excess iron). By lowering the iron in the body, it may also help lower the risk of infectious disease.
 
Loss Leader said:
It turns out bleeding is the best treatment for hemochromatosis (an inability of the body to rid itself of excess iron). By lowering the iron in the body, it may also help lower the risk of infectious disease.
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and leeches have their benefits too....

LEECHES can save failing skin transplants. The therapy was successful in all 15 patients on whom it was tested.

Surgery to remove a tumour of the head or neck can leave a gaping hole, which must be covered by tissue from other parts of the body. But poor blood flow can result in the death of the transplanted tissue. So Douglas Chepeha's team at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor tried using leeches, approved as a "medical device" by the US Food and Drug Administration last month, to drain off old blood and thus help induce the growth of new vessels in the skin transplants or "flaps". All were deemed to be beyond saving using conventional methods.

"In the short-term, we were able to save all the flaps," Chepeha says. However, the procedure is not entirely free from complications, he told a cancer conference in Washington DC this week. Bacteria in the leech saliva can cause infections. He also noticed increased scarring.
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18324603.000-leeches-keep-skin-transplants-alive.html
 
Beady said:
Let's not get carried away. These are highly specialized cases that in no way invalidate, or validate, anything at all.
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well it validates the use [or further investigation of] leeches to help save failing skin transplants. ;)
 
bleeding killed Lord Byron when he really just had a cold.

Too many doctors trying to treat a famous patient.

Another good read would be "The Monsters"
 
Well it doesn't directly dehydrate, it somewhat slows the kidney function of hydrating the body. (Which is why beer seems to go straight to your blatter).

However with beer and to a lesser extend wine you are taking a little bit of alcohol with a lot of water, effectively still hydrating your body a little bit, even if it isn't nearly as well as with the same amount of just water.
 
Back "in old days" it was indeed common to drink beer, and it was a lot healthier than water because the water in beermaking is boiled. What you should remember is that the "daily beer" people drank was very weak in alcohol, something around 0.5-1.5% and you have to drink a lot of that stuff to get drunk. The strong beer was only made at festive times and that tradition has fortunately survived. I have just stocked up with Easter Brew so it'll last a couple of months :)

PÅSKEBRYG=Easter Brew
 

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Ove said:
What you should remember is that the "daily beer" people drank was very weak in alcohol, something around 0.5-1.5% and you have to drink a lot of that stuff to get drunk.
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Yes, in England this was known as “small beer” (hence the modern phrase), a major producer of which was Cods brewery. Which may have been the origin of the word “codswallop” (wallop being slang for beer)
 
It was the addition of hops to beer that really made it take off as a safe drink. Hops contain the alpha acids humulone, cohumulone and adhumulone which are converted into isomers (iso-humulone etc.) when the hops are boiled in beer production. These iso alpha acids are anti bacterial and therefore help the beer keep longer. it is these alpha aids that give beer it's bitter taste.
 
symball said:
It was the addition of hops to beer that really made it take off as a safe drink. Hops contain the alpha acids humulone, cohumulone and adhumulone which are converted into isomers (iso-humulone etc.) when the hops are boiled in beer production. These iso alpha acids are anti bacterial and therefore help the beer keep longer. it is these alpha aids that give beer it's bitter taste.
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I'll take your word for it :)


Actually i thought this thread was about Winston Churchill and some og the other heavy drinking statesmen ;)
 
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