Has Humankind outgrown natural selection?

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Z
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Just a thought that occured to me - as we develop our medicines and our sciences, keeping people alive longer and allowing people longer and healthier, active lives with genetic flaws that would have eliminated them, years ago - have we actually managed to outgrow natural selection? Is the process of evolution stalled by the ability of our species to allow individuals to survive who should have been 'selected out' of the genepool?

And what could that mean for future generations of humanity?

Or is it possible that we're also creating a weaker strain of humanity, one that will eventually lose the ability to do what we're striving to do now (cure genetic flaws, survive longer)? Will natural selection come back to haunt us in some future when our species is riddled with genetic errors and failures, unable to even understand the science of our progenitors? Will our higher brain functions force us to avoid genetic purification and improvement on some moral / social grounds, while continuing to 'benefit' from medicine and therapy, allowing people to carry defective genes forward for generations?

Or will we eschew moral and ethical considerations, and improve/purify the genetic mechanisms of our species so that we truly are beyond all other species - an evolutionary pinnacle, a perfect species, capable of thriving in any and all situations (for some reason, Marvel Comics comes to mind - one of their future history comics dealt with genetically engineered humans living throughout the Solar System on different planets relatively unprotected)?

Thoughts?
 
I think one possibility is evolution seeing its first ever change of medium before long - from carbon to silicon or something. Considering the pace at which silicon based creations are advancing, it is conceivable that humans will transfer their branch of the tree of evolution to that form and perform a true paradigm shift in evolution - the first ever in billions of years.

That's one possibility.
 
I've thought along similar lines, Dog Boots. The idea of robot (or cyborg) being the next evolutionary step. Or, possibly, virtual man.
 
I had written this some time ago:

Let's take man for example. Natural selection is practically over. There's no way that a markedly different human will evolve in some dark corner of Earth. Evolution is terribly slow and has nowhere to hide anymore too. With the advance of genetic engineering the game is over. As far as other species go, we're still "allowing" it as long as it doesn't annoy us but even then, human intervention can (and does) very easily modify, destroy or undo what "natural selection" has been working on for ever. So, even if we continue to "allow" some things to go on, "natural" is now a small subset of "human" and not the other way around.
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As for your question, we will eventually do all we can. No moral or ethical considerations will get in the way. There are inevitably going to be a lot of mistakes but I think that in the end we'll all be indestructible software (barring any natural disasters we won't be able to deal with).
 
Indestructible software? Isn't that a bit... dualist?

/I have yet to hear of indestructible hardware too.
//Don't buy into the carbon=>silicon evolution scenario
 
What exacty would be our "natural" evolutionary path?

I would say nowdays it includes what many would consider artificial: medicine, controll of our environment, etc. We developed these techniques to improve our survival chances. Its Homo sapiens' answer to evolutionary pressures. A vaccine increases our chances of survival, its an improvment, just like eyeglasses or some prothesis. The way I see it, they are just like some "natural" feature, like hands with five digits and opposing thumbs or being a social species.

And we will use technology to improve ourselves. It is our "natural" evolutionary path. Maybe eventually we'll become something else, and no longer belong to the Homo sapiens species or even to the genus Homo. Anyone expects our species to remain unchanged and exist forever?

OK, Christians, Muslims, [add religion here]...
 
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Jorghnassen said:
Indestructible software? Isn't that a bit... dualist?

/I have yet to hear of indestructible hardware too.
//Don't buy into the carbon=>silicon evolution scenario
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When we will fully understand how the brain works we wil be able to transfer our selves to software. And we won't mind because we will know how to experience anything, including happiness. Indestructibility will be as simple as taking a backup.
 
Anyone who says 'natural selection is finished for humans' either doesn't understand natural selection or lacks imagination.

It's very easy for us with out laptops to see only 'our' world, but large parts of the world are still chronically plagued by malaria, HIV etc.

Any form of resistance to modern contraception would be selected for.

Any genetic 'desire' for kids (in our contraception filled, 2.4 kids society) would be selected for.
 
When I look at which groups of people are having many children and which groups of people are having few or none, I can only come to the conclusion that we are actively breeding for idiots.
 
zaayrdragon said:
Just a thought that occured to me - as we develop our medicines and our sciences, keeping people alive longer and allowing people longer and healthier, active lives with genetic flaws that would have eliminated them, years ago - have we actually managed to outgrow natural selection? Is the process of evolution stalled by the ability of our species to allow individuals to survive who should have been 'selected out' of the genepool?
Click to expand...
Keeping people alive longer beyond the age at which they usually have children won't have that much of an impact; it's all down to how many viable offspring are produced. If genetic problems that would have made individuals less likely to survive to adulthood are overcome, I suppose we might start to see a higher incidence of these, as they would no longer have such an effect on the individuals concerned being able to pass on their genes.

And as pjh pointed out, there will always be selective pressures.
 
Interesting discussion so far, fellas and/or ladies.

Don't think this is a post-and-run; I'm quietly absorbing your opinions, and adding their diversity to my own.

Resistance is futile...
 
zaayrdragon said:
Thoughts?
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While we have made it extremely easy for the weakest of us to breed, we haven't escaped the possibility of extinction. In fact, those properties of our species that allows us to do the former has increased the possibility that the latter could happen extremely quickly. Technology is a double-edged sword.

Instead of a general progression of natural selection, we may experience all of it in a very short period of time.
 
Interesting thread.
I can't help but wonder if our generation is the one that will miss out on life extension enhancements. Are we merely 1, 2, 3 generations away from a quality of life unheard of today? I hope it’s soon because the alternative is an obliterated awareness. What a waste of tax payer dollars. :) The aging process is the root cause of many of the symptoms modern medicine now treats. I wonder what percentage of medical expenditures goes toward maintaining the consequences of this cellular breakdown. I believe this reality is ever so slowly seeping into the forefront of our consciousness.

It feels as if we’re reaching a critical stage of the survival game. The internet and globalized market--with all its sophistication--is placing into-the-hands-of-many a level of knowledge and technology that if misused could be used to destroy or seriously put into jeopardy, our evolutionary destiny!
 
Serenity, what do you see or imagine our evolutionary destiny to be?

My understanding, of course, is that it is generally the destiny of every species to grow extinct...
 
zaayrdragon said:
Serenity, what do you see or imagine our evolutionary destiny to be?

My understanding, of course, is that it is generally the destiny of every species to grow extinct...
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I'm certainly not qualified in any way to answer this question, and if I manage some semblance of a coherent thought on this topic I'll consider myself lucky.

You’re right the destiny or life cycle of every species has been to grow extinct, but I hope that pattern ends with us... probably not I fear. Perhaps it will require a few more tries for this planet to spawn a more intelligent creature that crawls and stays out of the womb (planet) in time to ward off dying or withering within its sphere. Evolutionary destiny for creatures of our adaptive, growing skills, is one that is self-imposed … thwarting extinction forced on lesser intelligent species, ill-equipped to adapt to a changing environment. Since the dawn of life on Earth our species has become the first to comprehend its place and workings of the universe sufficient enough to contemplate taking over nature's evolutionary reigns and begin mapping out writing its evolutionary destiny. It can happen, if we yearn for it… dream it.

I can only imagine we will someday shed our biological origins for a safer vessel or format more conducive to space travel. Bodies are such a liability and prone to injury with no backup, as was mentioned by others. Our strength seems to be our ability to network our way to success. Will our consciousness consist of a bunch of 1’s and 0’s circulating in some mirrored server up in the sky? Maybe...maybe not… No one really knows and you’re lucky to get in the ballpark with any sort of prediction. Trending can only get you so far and rarely accounts for all the variables. But what I do know is that we have the capacity to manufacture our own destiny in ways we haven’t yet perceived. How many of us alive today are taught this… feel it… sense it… reach for it? Why not? Religion has spent hundreds…thousands of years learning how to propagate itself, recruiting to fill its ranks. It's nourishing the passions and voids within us all; giving many a reason to go forward--to die for. Science must find a way to tap into these passions if it, too, wants to survive.
 
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The fate of the main character in Frederick Pohl's Heechee Saga comes to mind...

Boy, that guy had vision, didn't he?
 
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