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Hamas gunmen hit new low ... even for them

SteveGrenard

Philosopher
S
Joined
Oct 6, 2002
Messages
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These are very sick people and need to be destroyed no matter how fervently they rationalize their position.


A CHILD'S backpack, emblazoned with cartoon characters and the word "friend", lay on the front seat of the bullet-ridden car, covered in blood.

Ahmed Abdul Aziz Street had been crowded with children being dropped off during Gaza City's school-run when the gunmen struck yesterday morning, signalling a new, dreadful low in the spiral of violence afflicting the Gaza Strip.

Two cars carrying gunmen drove from both directions down the one-way street, which is lined with nine schools, then jumped out to fire more than 60 rounds into the car carrying Osama, nine, Ahmed, six, and three-year-old Salaam. One child was hit ten times in the head.

Witnesses said several of the gunmen also fired indiscriminately into the crowd, as children and passers-by ran for cover "screaming and weeping in fear", according to one young child.

Seemingly unable to attack their father, a Palestinian intelligence officer, the assassins decided to assassinate his children instead.
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http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1841622006
 
Thank you for the link Steve. A hugely sad story.

Is it possible that Hamas will actually pursue the killers? Would the vast majority of Hamas supporters cooperate to see the killers brought to justice?

I noticed no official attempt to blame Israel as there has been in the past for some incidents like this. Is it so completely clear cut that Israel had nothing to do with this that no attempt to blame Israel for this will be made?
 
davefoc said:
Is it possible that Hamas will actually pursue the killers? Would the vast majority of Hamas supporters cooperate to see the killers brought to justice?
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Are you serious Dave?


Hamas gunmen open fire on Fatah protest

"KHAN YOUNIS, Gaza Strip - Hamas gunmen fired on demonstrators from the rival movement on Tuesday, wounding four people and intensifying fears of a new wave of Palestinian infighting following the deaths of three children in a drive-by shooting, officials said.

The demonstration was organized to protest the deaths of the children, whose car was riddled with bullets as they were driven to school Monday morning.

Saleh Hammad, a local Fatah leader, said the demonstration was peaceful, though he acknowledged that some children had provoked the Hamas militiamen by throwing rocks at them."

It doesn't matter if you are Israeli or Palestinian. Hamas or Fatah militiamen will open fire on you. Time folks woke up about the realities on-the-ground there.
 
At the risk of seeming mean to the pro-Hamas/Hizbllshts on many of these threads: Find them, spend a week or so explaining the error of their ways (I see medical equipment, electrical apparatuses and other such as necessary here) and then drop them off near known Hamass site. From a helicopter. (On the positive side, they will have repented their evil and will be devoutly wishing for the drop-off.)
 
Sabra said:
Saleh Hammad, a local Fatah leader, said the demonstration was peaceful, though he acknowledged that some children had provoked the Hamas militiamen by throwing rocks at them.
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What's with these folks and the rock throwing? Why would parents, assuming parents were present, let their children throw rocks at armed men? This is in no way meant to excuse the use of guns! Just a comment on how crazy things are there :boggled:

As for the OP, well, what can you say? It's too awful for me to describe. :(
 
davfoc: I noticed no official attempt to blame Israel as there has been in the past for some incidents like this. Is it so completely clear cut that Israel had nothing to do with this that no attempt to blame Israel for this will be made?
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Israel is not only NOT being blamed, it is genuinely concerned that this act of sheer depravity by pro-Hamas gunman (whose actions Hamas is apparently denying came from them) will destabilize Gaza. Clearly this act was designed to do exactly as what is happening: prevent Palestine from negotiating with Israel.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...rge-of-collapse/2006/12/12/1165685678787.html

Thanassis Cambanis, Jerusalem

December 13, 2006

PRESIDENT Mahmoud Abbas has ordered security forces to deploy across Gaza after the killing of three young sons of one of his loyalists shocked Palestinians and stoked fears of internal strife.
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http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/169200,CST-NWS-meast12.article

Kids' killings could ignite Palestinian war
Factions' rivalry put peace with Israel on hold
December 12, 2006

BY MARK LAVIE

JERUSALEM -- The killing of three children in the Gaza Strip on Monday threatened to set off a Palestinian civil war and jeopardized Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's efforts to restart peace talks.

As violence between the two main Palestinian factions has intensified, hopes are fading for a Palestinian national unity government -- seen as a precondition for renewed negotiations with Israel. Olmert is offering the Palestinians far-reaching concessions and a state of their own if they choose the path of peace talks.

''It's one of those situations where all Israel can do is wait it out,'' said Shmuel Sandler, a professor of political science at Bar Ilan University outside Tel Aviv.

The apparent target of the drive-by shooting in Gaza City was Baha Balousheh, a top Palestinian security officer and Fatah loyalist. He blamed the rival Hamas, although the Islamic movement denied responsibility and denounced the killings.
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http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/art...ESTINIANS.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsLanding-C4-World-2

By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Rival Palestinian security forces traded gunfire in southern Gaza on Tuesday as tensions soared in the strip after the killing of three young sons of one of President Mahmoud Abbas's top intelligence officials.

Hospital officials said two members of Abbas's security forces had been wounded, one seriously. A spokesman for the governing Hamas Islamist movement's police force said two of their men had been wounded. One was in critical condition.


Both sides accused the other of starting the gunfight in the town of Khan Younis. The Hamas spokesman said members of Abbas's forces had been protesting and attacking public buildings.

Abbas earlier ordered his security forces to deploy across Gaza after the killing of the three boys.

Tension between the moderate Abbas and Hamas has mounted since unidentified gunmen shot dead the children of Colonel Baha Balousha as they arrived at school on Monday. It was the first time children have been targeted in such an attack.
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SteveGrenard said:
Israel is not only NOT being blamed, it is genuinely concerned that this act of sheer depravity by pro-Hamas gunman (whose actions Hamas is apparently denying came from them) will destabilize Gaza. Clearly this act was designed to do exactly as what is happening: prevent Palestine from negotiating with Israel.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...rge-of-collapse/2006/12/12/1165685678787.html



http://www.suntimes.com/news/world/169200,CST-NWS-meast12.article



http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/art...ESTINIANS.xml&WTmodLoc=NewsLanding-C4-World-2
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OK, a civil war in Palestine, or perhaps more correctly, a civil war in Gaza. Works for me. I am curious at how that influences other Pal settlements in the Holy Land. Will fighting erupt among sympathizers on the West Bank and elsewhere?

It isn't a civil war yet, what is going on at present is at the same scale as a gang war in a major US city. Its importance is inflated by 24/7 global media who thrive on sensationalizing local events. That said, the elements are there: competing political groups using armed force to pursue their ends.

As George Carlin might have said, this just provides more entertainment. :p They'll stop when the get tired of killing one another. I wonder how various Arab donors, and sponsors, of the disparate Pal groups feel about this internecine fracas.

DR
 
This Guy said:
Saleh Hammad, a local Fatah leader, said the demonstration was peaceful, though he acknowledged that some children had provoked the Hamas militiamen by throwing rocks at them.
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Hmmmmm. I guess there is a difference between shooting rubber bullets at kids with rocks and real bullets at kids with rocks, and the attitudes of the governments in choosing which, after all.

This isn't the same incident where they gunned down three children of that guy in that car to teach him a lesson, is it?
 
CFLarsen said:
These cases are unfortunately not uncommon.

E.g, the Beslan tragedy, where 186 children were killed.

Or, the Oklahoma City bombing, where 19 children died.

Or, the My Lai massacre, mainly on women and children.

Or, recently, the Mahmudiyah incident, where US soldiers raped a 14-year old girl, and killed her and her family.
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The difference between the above cited atrocities and what happened in Gaza yesterday is that a normal society doesn't go to war over it any more but rather comes together to find, arrest, charge and punish the perpetrators. A Shari'a court sounds good right now for these perps.


Is it possible that Hamas will actually pursue the killers? Would the vast majority of Hamas supporters cooperate to see the killers brought to justice?
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The best thing Hamas could do is to QUICKLY find and deliver on a platter the 8 or 9 gunmen to justice. It remains to be seen if that happens. So far that doesn't seem to be happening.
 
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SteveGrenard said:
The difference between the above cited atrocities and what happened in Gaza yesterday is that a normal society doesn't go to war over it any more but rather comes together to find, arrest, charge and punish the perpetrators. A Shari'a court sounds good right now for these perps.
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What "society" goes to war over the incident you opened this thread with?
 
A plea from Palestinian children:

GAZA, Dec 12 (Reuters) - In a sign of just how far security has fallen in the Gaza Strip, a group of children took to the streets on Tuesday burning tyres and threatening stonings if the "adults" did not stop causing chaos.

Dressed in jeans and a blue shirt, 12-year-old Saeed Salem and his friends said they were enraged by the killing of three young brothers on Monday and fed up with the constant security nightmares that have ruined their short lives.

"We are angry," said Salem, as he and his young colleagues set about burning tyres in a central Gaza street. "We need those who killed the kids to be found and stoned to death."

His friend, Ahmed, his hands blackened from wheeling abandoned tyres on to the bonfire, said the adults were lost in rivalries and had abandoned the kids to their own business.

"We have no amusment parks to attend and no sport clubs to go to. At least let us live in peace," the boy said.

Gaza took another step towards chaos on Monday when gunmen shot dead three brothers, aged between 6 and 9, as they were being dropped off at school.
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More at:

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L12884896.htm
 
Answer: Palestinian Society; Rival forces trade gunfire in Gaza. The forgoing is hardly being coy; you are the only one being coy:




Tensions have increased across the occupied territories since the children's killings


Palestinian security forces loyal to Mahmoud Abbas have exchanged gunfire with policeman loyal to the ruling party, Hamas, after the president's decision to deploy his Fatah forces in Gaza. Hospital officials said two members of Fatah's security forces were wounded in Tuesday's clashes, one seriously, in the southern Gaza town of Khan Younis.


A spokesman for Hamas's police force said two of their men had been wounded, one critically. Each side accused the other of starting the gunfight. The Hamas spokesman said members of Abbas's forces had been protesting and attacking public buildings.
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http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/56CB765D-C813-456C-B7AF-7FE2DB1F527D.htm

Fatah: Hamas fired on protest over kids' deaths
By JPOST.COM STAFF


Hamas gunmen opened fire on demonstrators from the rival Fatah movement in the southern Gaza Strip on Tuesday, wounding four people in the first factional violence following the deaths of three children in a drive-by shooting.

The demonstration was organized to protest the deaths of the children, whose car was riddled with bullets as they drove to school Monday morning. Fatah officials have accused Hamas of being behind the shooting. The children's father is an intelligence officer who is considered an enemy of Hamas.
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http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881876392&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
 
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You are changing the premises of my contention that in the examples you give of atrocities against children the societies involved found and punished the perpetrators, whether they be Beslan terrorists or depraved U.S. soldiers or a white supremicist in Oklahoma City. They are all criminals. In this case it would be best for the rival fractions in Palestine to come together and punish the killers of these children. This means that both Hamas and Fatah join forces to find these animals and punish them. So far that apparently is NOT happening but it remains to be seen which is what I said. In the meantime press reports indicate heightened tensions and fears that a Hamas/Fatah Palestinian Civil War will erupt over this:

Threat of Palestinian civil war looms
2006/12

JERUSALEM - By threatening to ignite a Palestinian civil war, the killing of three children in the Gaza Strip on Monday has jeopardized Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert‘s efforts to restart long-stalled peace talks. As the violence intensified, Palestinians moved further away from their hoped-for national unity government — seen as a precondition for renewed negotiations with Israel . Olmert is offering the Palestinians far-reaching concessions and a state of their own if they choose the path of peace talks.
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http://www.newsone.ca/hinesbergjournal/ViewArticle.aspx?id=33948&source=2

GAZA: President Mahmoud Abbas ordered security forces to deploy across Gaza after the killing of three young sons of one of his loyalists shocked Palestinians and stoked fears of internal strife.

Tension between the moderate Abbas and the governing Hamas Islamist group soared after the attack by unidentified gunmen. The three children of a senior intelligence chief were shot dead as they arrived at school.

Early on Tuesday, heavily-armed members of those security forces that take their orders from Abbas took up positions around key installations and road junctions in Gaza City.

"Palestinian security forces deployed in all streets of Gaza City to prevent crime. This was upon orders from President Abbas," said one Palestinian security source.
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3897670a12,00.html
 
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CFLarsen said:
How is the Palestinian society going to "war" over the incident you opened this thread with?

Who are they fighting?
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The war in this case is being characterized as a civil war. They will be fighting each other. This was made abundently clear in a number of posts above. Is there some part about the concept of "civil war" that you do not understand?
 
Eyewitness Account:

WITH a calm voice that sounded as if she was describing a petty incident in the playground, six-year-old Lydia Abu Id recounted how she survived one of the cruellest political assassinations in Palestinian history.

The assault by masked gunmen claimed the lives of her cousins, the three young sons of a senior Fatah intelligence officer, Baha Balousha, and plunged the Palestinian territories to the brink of civil war as the Hamas and Fatah factions wrestled for power.

Pointing, Lydia recounted in precise detail where everyone was sitting on the morning school run when their car was attacked on a busy street in central Gaza City. Osama, nine, Ahmed, six, and Salaam, three, were accompanied by Lydia, their driver Ayman Ghoul and bodyguard Mahmoud Habeel.
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More and photos thanks to Sydney Morning Herald at:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/vi...atal-school-run/2006/12/12/1165685679598.html
 
In an Arab press round-up evidence seems to indicate that Hamas has no intention of handing over the killers of these children for arrest and trial.

It criticized the Hamas interior minister, saying the Hamas-held authorities managed within two hours to capture the gunmen who fired at his convoy recently, but the killers of the children, 'or the anonymous militias,' will remain loose in the streets. 'Where will these militias be that killed the children of long-time struggler Bahaa Baalousha (a top Fatah security officer), who was being hunted by the occupation authorities for many years?' the daily asked.
It indicated these militias were well-known, yet remain anonymous, and wondered when the interior minister will be questioned. It asked when Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh will cut short his visit from abroad to confront the security deterioration at home. Addressing Haniyeh, it asked: 'When will you move? The blood being shed in the streets is the blood of your own children and life, blood of your future and history. When will we see you in the streets protesting?'
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Above from: AMMAN, Jordan (UPI) -- Arab press roundup for Dec. 12:

And posted at:

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/...1232484.php/Review_of_the_Arab_press_-_Dec_12
 
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