Haliburton "Worst Example of Contract Abuse Seen"

[a_unique_person]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/iraq/...-iraq-contracts/2005/06/28/1119724632533.html

A top US Army procurement official has said Halliburton's deals in Iraq are the worst example of contract abuse she has seen, as Pentagon auditors examine more than $US1 billion ($A1.3 billion) potential overcharges by the Texas-based company.

Bunny Greenhouse, the Army Corps of Engineers' top contracting official turned whistleblower, told a congressional hearing by Democrats on Monday that every aspect of Halliburton's oil contract in Iraq had been controlled by the Office of the Secretary of Defence.

"I can unequivocally state that the abuse related to contracts awarded to KBR (Kellogg Brown and Root) represents the most blatant and improper contract abuse I have witnessed during the course of my professional career," Ms Greenhouse said.

Her blistering criticism came as the Democrats released a new report that identified more than $US1 billion in "questioned" costs and $US422 million in "unsupported" costs for Halliburton's work in Iraq.

Halliburton's subsidiary KBR is the US military's biggest contractor in Iraq and has been accused by Democrats of getting lucrative work there because of its ties to Vice-President Dick Cheney, who headed the company from 1995 to 2000. Asked if she thought the Defence Secretary's office was involved in handing out and running of contracts to KBR, Ms Greenhouse replied: "That is true."

Dick Cheney and a conflict of interest?

 

[Charlie Monoxide]

This is just more of the lefty liberal press bashing the glorious governing, democratically elected GOP party.

Charlie (another day in the house of Bush) Monoxide

 

[demon]

Bunny`s Hopping Mad

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=48163&highlight=Bunny+Greenhouse


What a disgrace.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

Dick Cheney and a conflict of interest?

Let's see if I can beat the local spinmeisters to the punch.

Do you actually know what Halliburton does anyway? If not you lose.

Do you have actual, smoking-gun proof that Cheney knew Halliburton would pad its costs when he awarded no-bid contracts? If not then we must assume Cheney acted in good faith and had no idea that the company he used to run would do that.

Every war has profiteers. Does that mean we shouldn't have wars?

Clinton awarded Halliburton no-bid contracts too. Thus anyone who thinks this graft reflects badly on the current government is a hypocrite.

Nobody but Halliburton could have provided the infrastructure needed to fight this war. So Cheney had no other choice, so he has no moral responsibility.

Have I missed any?

 

[crackmonkey]

I understand that witnesses testified about Saddam's mobile weapons labs, too...

 

[demon]

Kevin Lowe:
"Have I missed any?"

How about:

Well if there was any wrongdoing it will be thoroughly investigated and those responsible will be punished.

 

[peptoabysmal]

This old story is being recycled again?

KBR is the firm who delivered fuel while being shot at with mortars and RPG's. Anyone else want the job? C'mon there must be someone willing to under-bid these guys on the lucrative career prospect of delivering tank and jet fuel to a combat zone full of non-uniformed combatants?

FBI Widens Probe of Halliburton

And what did KBR do that was so bad?

In October 2003 members of Congress Henry Waxman (D-CA) and John Dingell (D-MI) demanded an investigation in the high prices KB&R was charging for gasoline transported in occupied Iraq. The firm was purchasing gasoline in Kuwait for $2.20 per gallon while other contractors were paying $1.18 for gasoline in Turkey [1] (http://www.forbes.com/newswire/2003/12/11/rtr1178816.html). The company billed the government $2.27 per gallon. A Defense Department audit placed the gasoline overcharge at $61 million. Halliburton claimed that it had to buy the gasoline in Kuwait to avoid hauling it through dangerous parts of Iraq.

You wish gasoline would go back to $2.20 a gallon huh? Where's all the oil we were supposed to get by invading Iraq?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kellogg,_Brown_and_Root

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

KBR is the firm who delivered fuel while being shot at with mortars and RPG's. Anyone else want the job? C'mon there must be someone willing to under-bid these guys on the lucrative career prospect of delivering tank and jet fuel to a combat zone full of non-uniformed combatants?

Damn, I missed the old "Hey, their employees in Iraq might get shot at! That makes them entitled to a few hundred million dollars worth of graft!" argument.

That's the strength of pro-government spin. They come up with arguments I never would have thought of in a million years.

 

[corplinx]

Remember to remove as many references to KBR and replace them with Halliburton as you can to keep the "Cheney is helping his buddies profit off American blood" meme going. Seems to be working so far....

 

[Manny]

Remember to remove as many references to KBR and replace them with Halliburton as you can to keep the "Cheney is helping his buddies profit off American blood" meme going. Seems to be working so far....

Well, one wants to be fair. HAL hired Cheney precisely because the company thought, correctly, that he could anticipate DOD's needs as it increased outsourcing following the end of the cold war and that he could be a good rainmaker in getting the kinds of contracts for which he repositioned the company. Remember, at that point their core oilfield services and equipment business was in sad shape and many were concerned that it might never come back.

Unfortunately for Halliburton, Cheney's ability to do that voodoo that he did do so well ended the day he left. They've been getting extensions on the contracts he secured during his tenure as CEO, but they've been terrible at it. They didn't hit their 100% performance bonus on any of their contracts during 2004, for example. Iraq and Kuwait work had a whopping 2.4% profit margin in the first quarter of '05, and that's up from the prior year (their limit under the contract is 3%). Between that and their asbestos settlement (oops! Nice trade, Dick! Remember to read the indemnification section twice next time.), if the oilfield business hadn't finally come back, they might have been done for.

If Cheney really wanted to help his old employer, he'd have got that asbestos legislation through Congress before the company coughed up $4.2 billion.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Damn, I missed the old "Hey, their employees in Iraq might get shot at! That makes them entitled to a few hundred million dollars worth of graft!" argument.

That's the strength of pro-government spin. They come up with arguments I never would have thought of in a million years.

What I don't understand is how they made millions buying gas for a higher price from Kuwait in order to avoid a more dangerous route, i.e.; from Turkey. Wouldn't they have made more money by risking more lives going to Turkey for the lower price? It seems to me that Kuwait is the entity who profited on the deal.

In the competition for the current LOGCAP contract, the Army Corps of Engineers asked competitors to develop a contingency plan for extinguishing oil well fires in Iraq. The Army chose KBR's plan in November 2001, though it remains classified.

Would this skill set be handy against an enemy known to light oil wells on fire?

http://store.publicintegrity.org/wow/bio.aspx?act=pro&ddlC=31

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

What I don't understand is how they made millions buying gas for a higher price from Kuwait in order to avoid a more dangerous route, i.e.; from Turkey. Wouldn't they have made more money by risking more lives going to Turkey for the lower price? It seems to me that Kuwait is the entity who profited on the deal.

You're good, I didn't even think of the Chewbacca Defence.

Would this skill set be handy against an enemy known to light oil wells on fire?

Or "We need Halliburton more than they need us".

I doff my hat, sir.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Kevin_Lowe
You're good, I didn't even think of the Chewbacca Defence.

I don't understand this. It appears to be making fun of Peptoabysmal without addressing his point, which seems to be valid.

Originally posted by Kevin_Lowe
Or "We need Halliburton more than they need us".

I doff my hat, sir.

This doesn't seem to be an accurate reflection of Peptoabysmal's views. I think it's valid to point out there may be considerations in addition to money in awarding contracts, but that's not the same as saying we need them more than they need us.

 

[demon]

Meanwhile, "Where has all the money gone?"

Ed Harriman follows the auditors into Iraq
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v27/n13/harr04_.html

"The ‘financial irregularities’ described in audit reports carried out by agencies of the American government and auditors working for the international community collectively give a detailed insight into the mentality of the American occupation authorities and the way they operated, handing out truckloads of dollars for which neither they nor the recipients felt any need to be accountable. The auditors have so far referred more than a hundred contracts, involving billions of dollars paid to American personnel and corporations, for investigation and possible criminal prosecution. They have also discovered that $8.8 billion that passed through the new Iraqi government ministries in Baghdad while Bremer was in charge is unaccounted for, with little prospect of finding out where it went. A further $3.4 billion earmarked by Congress for Iraqi development has since been siphoned off to finance ‘security’......

.....Both Saddam and the US profited handsomely during his reign. He controlled Iraq’s wealth while most of Iraq’s oil went to Californian refineries to provide cheap petrol for American voters. US corporations, like those who enjoyed Saddam’s favour, grew rich. Today the system is much the same: the oil goes to California, and the new Iraqi government spends the country’s money with impunity."

 

[President Bush]

Wouldn't they have made more money by risking more lives going to Turkey for the lower price?

Work for commission on $1.09 less a gallon times 57 million gallons? We would have made about this much.

 

[RandFan]

Re: Re: Haliburton "Worst Example of Contract Abuse Seen"

Let's see if I can beat the local spinmeisters to the punch.

Do you actually know what Halliburton does anyway? If not you lose.

Do you have actual, smoking-gun proof that Cheney knew Halliburton would pad its costs when he awarded no-bid contracts? If not then we must assume Cheney acted in good faith and had no idea that the company he used to run would do that.

Every war has profiteers. Does that mean we shouldn't have wars?

Clinton awarded Halliburton no-bid contracts too. Thus anyone who thinks this graft reflects badly on the current government is a hypocrite.

Nobody but Halliburton could have provided the infrastructure needed to fight this war. So Cheney had no other choice, so he has no moral responsibility.

Have I missed any?

Well of course. Since the straw man is the invention of its author there are almost an infinite number of possiblities. It all depends on what you can think up.

 

[RandFan]

Damn, I missed the old "Hey, their employees in Iraq might get shot at! That makes them entitled to a few hundred million dollars worth of graft!" argument.

That's the strength of pro-government spin. They come up with arguments I never would have thought of in a million years.

This isn't argument. It is just rhetoric.

BTW I think the entire affair quite troubling.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

This isn't argument. It is just rhetoric.

Well, yes. To be honest, in this thread I have mostly been amusing myself rather than trying to convert people who think that corruption on a massive scale is okay. Which is not to say that pre-emptively mocking bad arguments you suspect other people might use is not sometimes a useful argumentative tactic

Political debate regarding some topics, like Halliburton/KBR, is sufficiently repetitive (in my experience) that doing so saves some time.

BTW I think the entire affair quite troubling.

A serious question. What did you expect?

 

[Roadtoad]

Don't know if you want to hear it or not, but...

A while ago, I was being recruited by Halliburton. Since I have a Haz-Mat endorsement, and I've got tank experience, plus because I used to be in the United States Military, (and therefore, knew a thing or two about shooting a gun), they wanted guys like me to haul diesel and gasoline through Iraq. I would be part of a convoy, and I'd have decent equipment. Plus, I'd be paid more in one month than I get in six.

I had to admit, I was very, very tempted. I needed the money, (and still do), and I want, badly, to help out our troops if I can. The problem, though, is that while Halliburton, a service company which provides oilfield transportation and supply, does pay well, and does provide extremely good benefits to their people, I had to weigh the odds of my coming home in one piece.

Granted, the vast majority of those who are going over there are doing just that. But you have to look at not only the company, but yourself. Eventually, it does come down to you, and how you'll handle yourself in high stress situations. (BTW: I was told that you're provided a plane ticket home before you even get on the plane going there.)

Halliburton, crooked? Probably. So was Global Crossings. Ditto Enron. Talked lately to Rikzilla about MCI/Worldcom? They all had deep connections to presidential administrations. It's irritating, at the very least. At the most, these kinds of things can, in fact, undermine our Republic. (See the Kelo Case.) It's fine to complain, and you have that right. I want to know what you suggest we do about it.

In my case, because I saw serious problems with a no-bid contract, (a practice that even the Clinton Administration used with Halliburton), and because I knew that in a serious situation with RPGs and SMG fire flying everywhere, that I'd likely do something which would inflame the situation, (and likely get myself or others killed), I decided to stay put. I couldn't live with someone else dying because I had to be a "hero."

 

[Manny]

Well, yes. To be honest, in this thread I have mostly been amusing myself rather than trying to convert people who think that corruption on a massive scale is okay. Which is not to say that pre-emptively mocking bad arguments you suspect other people might use is not sometimes a useful argumentative tactic

Actually, it's trolling.

Political debate regarding some topics, like Halliburton/KBR, is sufficiently repetitive (in my experience) that doing so saves some time.

There exist actual facts like Halliburton's success/failure at winning contracts before and after Dick Cheney became Vice President, the profitibility of those contracts, how other large services contractors have fared, etc. Some of those facts are even unfavorable to the company and/or to the administration.

You're a "skeptic" like those skeptics who beleived that any faster-than-sound aircraft would break up. It's often said that one shouldn't open one's mind to the point where one's brains spill out. There's a corollary. One shouldn't close one's mind so tightly that new information can't find its way in.