Hair-splitting question: Aliens enough for the challenge?

Carn

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C
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Could someone apply claiming, that he has met aliens and can proof it, by asking them to land at a certain time and place?

JREF million goes "to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event".

Alien life forms are not paranormal or whatever, as long as they are made of known atoms and molecules.
A spaceship powered by fusion reactor, thats able to create wormholes and travel through is also not paranormal, though very interesting.

Seems to me that knowledge or ability to commune with aliens or even prove of a abduction by aliens alone is no valid claim (the aliens have at least to be on another "plane" of existence or come from moon, venus or mars).

Which surprises me a bit, as these things also belong to woo-woo in general and should be inspected by sceptics.

Carn
 
I am sure, after reading Randi’s agreement to test on other subjects, that he would consider this a valid candidate for the million.

There are lot’s of things considered paranormal that, if proven, might actually have a basis in scientific fact. Telepathy, for example, if proven true could probably eventually have a scientific explanation for how it works. As it is now, there is no evidence it even exists so for now, it is considered paranormal.
 
Could someone apply claiming, that he has met aliens and can proof it, by asking them to land at a certain time and place?
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I think it's a safe bet that Randi would pay out the million for that.
Plus a couple of calls to the media and the million is made back (plus one or two hundred billion extra dollars as spare change).


A spaceship powered by fusion reactor, thats able to create wormholes and travel through is also not paranormal
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I pretty sure it's by no means certain that this is possible. I'd have thought you'd get the money for this too.

I would have thought any evidence of alien life gets the million.
 
Actually that would be great, Randi refusing the million for an alien encounter because it wasn't paranormal enough.

I can imagine an alien trying to convince Randi that his eighth brood-sac partner's ammpling pod-in law kept appearing as a ghost and trying to agree with Randi a protocol for testing this.

Or better yet, aliens appear with their very own high-energy specialist... hooray! Dalton's rock can now be tested.
Then the aliens see the rock and say "Hey, where'd you get this? It's our Ranquin stone! This keeps the bugs off our windscreen and stops the ice in our drinks from melting on hot days!"
 
Ashles said:

I would have thought any evidence of alien life gets the million.
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But then those scientists who initiated the SETI project have a chance for the million and maybe with great improves in precision those scientists, who search for planets might have a chance as well.

Carn
 
Blue Monk said:
I am sure, after reading Randi’s agreement to test on other subjects, that he would consider this a valid candidate for the million.

There are lot’s of things considered paranormal that, if proven, might actually have a basis in scientific fact. Telepathy, for example, if proven true could probably eventually have a scientific explanation for how it works. As it is now, there is no evidence it even exists so for now, it is considered paranormal.
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Ok, forget wormholes, these are beyond known science, just speculation so far, consider aliens using a fusion powered space ship, taking 30 years for a trip to earth, having a thorugh genetics a life time of 200 years, so do not care that much about a 60 year trip.

I do not think that anything paranormal is about that, all these things are not in contradiction to known science and actually are long term goals of science.

Carn
 
Well I don't know about the physics involved, but I thought any current known methods of transportation would be totally prohibitive in any practical way, requiring journey times of thousands of years.
Creating these drives, whilst a long-term goal of physics, would (with current technological knowledge) be up there with teleportation and creation of energy out of nothing - not technically impossible if you really stretch the theoretical physics, but so far outside of our known abilities as to be every bit as remarkable as telepathy and levitation.

If Dalton's rock (the current benchmark for this kind of thing) would qualify then I would have thought an interstellar drive would qualify.

But I guess we need a JREFer to give a more definitive answer.
 
If I really had some aliens that had travelled across the galay to be here, why the hell would I waste my time with Randi's measley million bucks? If a celeb is willing to pay $20M for a ride to the space station, essentially high-tech bungee jumping, imagine what they'd give for a real ride through space, say a quick spin around Jupiter.

No, sir - Hollywood is where I'd head.
 
CurtC said:
If I really had some aliens that had travelled across the galay to be here, why the hell would I waste my time with Randi's measley million bucks?
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Because i titled this hair splitting, so just imagine some bizarre story, why the aliens are only willing to help you in winning the JREF prize by landing where and when you ask them to do and allow a rough medical check, that proves they are not human.

Question then, is this paranormal enough to get the million?

Carn
 
Uhh, you would have to ask Randi. You are pointing at an inherent dilemma in the challenge: As A. C. Clarke said, any sufficiently advanced technology is indiscernible from magic.

So, the pragmatic definition of paranormal should be: Anything that defies our current understanding of the laws of physics (or anything that defies the laws of physics defined as our present understanding of the universe).

The challenge rules do allow for this, because once the trial is agreed on, you win the prize if you pass. That the phenomenon may later be understood is irrelevant.

I would guess that Randi does not mind this. After all, the boon to humanity from discovering some adically new part of physics should be worth a million.

As for Aliens: Well, I suppose the same would apply; if that's what it takes to get those pesky aliens out in the open, fine!

But, of course, I in no way speak for the JREF.

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
So, the pragmatic definition of paranormal should be: Anything that defies our current understanding of the laws of physics (or anything that defies the laws of physics defined as our present understanding of the universe).
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This is correct. Any verifiable evidence of visitations from outer space would qualify for the JREF Challenge and the million bucks.
 
KRAMER said:
This is correct. Any verifiable evidence of visitations from outer space would qualify for the JREF Challenge and the million bucks.
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ooooh, verifiable.

I knew there was a catch.
 
KRAMER said:
This is correct. Any verifiable evidence of visitations from outer space would qualify for the JREF Challenge and the million bucks.
Click to expand...

Hey, thats hope for anyone being abducted by aliens!
Instead of pleading for mercy, one can offer them to guide them to a place where someone will pay them a million if they just land and say hello. ;)

Makes me think of a even more useless question, can aliens apply for the million? Ghosts? Vampires? Mermen? Big Foot? Yeti? internet using apes? possesed refrigerators? devil? god? :D :D

Carn
 
KRAMER said:
This is correct. Any verifiable evidence of visitations from outer space would qualify for the JREF Challenge and the million bucks.
Click to expand...

Hey, thats hope for anyone being abducted by aliens!
Instead of pleading for mercy, one can offer them to guide them to a place where someone will pay them a million if they just land and say hello. ;)

Makes me think of a even more useless question, can aliens apply for the million? Ghosts? Vampires? Mermen? Big Foot? Yeti? internet using apes? possesed refrigerators? devil? god? :D :D

Carn
 
Ashles is joking with you, Carn.

The thing is, I'm pretty sure you could have deleted it, IF you hadn't posted to ask "How do I remove it". Oh, the irony!

Don't worry about it.
 
KRAMER wrote:
This is correct. Any verifiable evidence of visitations from outer space would qualify for the JREF Challenge and the million bucks.
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As I understand the challenge rules this statement is not quite correct.

I understand the rules to require demonstration of a paranormal effect. So getting your favorite alien to arrange a little touch and go for Randi might qualify, but just showing up with a piece of the alien space ship that can be proved to be of extraterrestial origin wouldn't qualify.

This is of course an important distinction because I've got my piece of an alien space ship sitting here right now (maybe not) but I'm not currently in contact with any extraterrestials and I want to know if I can apply.
 
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