Gun deaths cut in half, StatsCan says

Orwell

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Re: Re: Gun deaths cut in half, StatsCan says

Tony said:
Does that statistic include people who were shot by the police?
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I think it does, but I'm not sure. But Canadian cops don't kill a lot of people.
 
Re: Re: Gun deaths cut in half, StatsCan says

Jorghnassen said:
I would postulate that part of it is due to the decline of hunting and therefore hunting accidents...
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It appears that that's a not-small part. From the linked article:
Homicides accounted for 38 per cent of deaths involving guns in the United States and 18 per cent in Canada.

But even as Canada's rate of gun homicide shrank (to 0.4 per 100,000 population in 2002 from 0.8 in 1979), handguns moved into a dominant role. Handguns accounted for two-thirds of gun homicides in 2002, up from about half in the 1990s, the agency says.

Consistently through the period, about four-fifths of Canadian firearms deaths were suicides, it says.
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Homicides in the US over the same period shrank from 10.2/100,000 to 5.5. (cite) A slightly smaller but comparable decrease.

It looks from the article like the biggest single factor is a decline in firearms-related suicides (it implies that they remained constant at 4/5 of all firearms-related deaths, which in turn indicates that they declined at the same rate overall deaths did). It would be interesting to see what happened to the overall suicide rate by all methods.

Very interesting study, Orwell. Thanks for drawing attention to it.
 
Aw, crap. "not-small part" above should be "small part." I reformatted my response and forgot to change that wording.

80% from suicides and 18% from homicides leaves not much for accidents.

I apologize for the error. I correct it here instead of editing the post in case someone's already calling me out on it as I type -- I deserve to look like the idiot, not whoever corrects me.
 
Re: Re: Re: Gun deaths cut in half, StatsCan says

manny said:
It appears that that's a not-small part. From the linked article:
Homicides in the US over the same period shrank from 10.2/100,000 to 5.5. (cite) A slightly smaller but comparable decrease.
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Soooo...homicides with firearms halved in Canada, with more gun control laws, and it very nearly halved in the US, with many states passing concealed-carry laws and there being more guns per capita in the US than ever.

And, this is supposed to say what, exactly, about gun control?

When, exactly, were Canada's gun control laws "stiffened" and what happened with the rates thereafter as opposed to before? That's what needs to be examined.
 
I'm not drawing any conclusions, you know? I put the news article up because I wanted to get your impressions.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Gun deaths cut in half, StatsCan says

shanek said:
Soooo...homicides with firearms halved in Canada, with more gun control laws, and it very nearly halved in the US, with many states passing concealed-carry laws and there being more guns per capita in the US than ever.

And, this is supposed to say what, exactly, about gun control?

When, exactly, were Canada's gun control laws "stiffened" and what happened with the rates thereafter as opposed to before? That's what needs to be examined.
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It should be noted that, as far as I know, the rate of death by gunshot always has been smaller in Canada. Also, I think that in general, Canadians always have been less tolerant of guns.

New legislation was introduced in 1995.
 
Thought:

The US has an estimated 295,734,134 people over an area of 9,631,418 sq. km. That's about 30.7 people per square kilometer. Also, the US has 43 cities with a population greater than 1,000,000, 7 of which have a population greater than 10,000,000.

Canada has an estimated 32,805,041 people over an area of 9,984,670 sq. km., or about 3.2 people per square kilometer. In Canada, only 6 cities have a population greater than 1,000,000, none of which have a population greater than 10,000,000.

Could Canada's rates be much lower because they're so sparsely populated compared to the US?
 
I'd like to see a link on the demographics of Canada's homicides. I'd bet that they're very similar to the USA's amongst different demographic groups. Only difference being that the USA has more of some demographics than Canada does. Please don't accuse me of being racist, I DO NOT BELIEVE AT ALL that there is a genetic component to this, just cultural (much of it because of past and current racism, IMHO).

For example:
Homicide Victimization Rates per 100,000 Population by Race (2002)
White - 3.3
Black - 20.8
Other - 2.7

Note: "White" in this example includes Hispanics, that's just how the FBI does it. Hispanic Blacks would be in the "Black" category.

I've been unable to find demographic crime data from Canada, but Blacks account for only 2% of the population. But US crime statistics alone would seem to indicate that cultural factors are far more important than gun availability as far as homicide rates go.




(waits to get flamed...)
 
History of gun control in Canada

Criminal Code of Canada amendments between the 1890s and 1990s steadily increased the restrictions on firearms. These included the following:

In the 1920s permits became necessary for all firearms newly acquired by foreigners.

In 1947 the offence of “constructive murder” was added to the Criminal Code for offences resulting in death, when the offender carried a firearm. This offence was struck down as unconstitutional by the Supreme Court of Canada in a 1987 case called R. v. Vaillancourt

Automatic weapons were added to the category of firearms that had to be registered in 1951. The registry system was centralized under the Commissioner of the RCMP.

The categories of “firearm,” “restricted weapon” and “prohibited weapon” were created in 1968-69. Police were given preventive powers of search and seizure by judicial warrant if they had grounds to believe that weapons endangered the safety of an individual.

Legislative provisions between 1977 and 1979 required Firearms Acquisition Certificates for all weapons and provided controls on the selling of ammunition. Fully automatic weapons were prohibited. Applicants for Firearms Acquisition Certificates were required to take a safety course.

Between 1991 and 1994, legislation tightened up restrictions and established controls on military, paramilitary and high-firepower weapons.

In 1995, new, and much stricter, gun control legislation was passed. The current legislation provides harsher penalties for crimes involving firearm use, licenses to possess and acquire firearms, and registration of all firearms, including shotguns and rifles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada
 
shanek said:
Thought:

The US has an estimated 295,734,134 people over an area of 9,631,418 sq. km. That's about 30.7 people per square kilometer. Also, the US has 43 cities with a population greater than 1,000,000, 7 of which have a population greater than 10,000,000.

Canada has an estimated 32,805,041 people over an area of 9,984,670 sq. km., or about 3.2 people per square kilometer. In Canada, only 6 cities have a population greater than 1,000,000, none of which have a population greater than 10,000,000.

Could Canada's rates be much lower because they're so sparsely populated compared to the US?
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I'll bet that most deaths by gunshot happen in cities, since the overwhelming majority of Canada's population lives in them. I think there is no overall significant difference between city population densities in Canada and in the US. Modern cities north american all tend to look alike.
 
WildCat said:
I'd like to see a link on the demographics of Canada's homicides. I'd bet that they're very similar to the USA's amongst different demographic groups. Only difference being that the USA has more of some demographics than Canada does. Please don't accuse me of being racist, I DO NOT BELIEVE AT ALL that there is a genetic component to this, just cultural (much of it because of past and current racism, IMHO).

For example:
Homicide Victimization Rates per 100,000 Population by Race (2002)
White - 3.3
Black - 20.8
Other - 2.7

Note: "White" in this example includes Hispanics, that's just how the FBI does it. Hispanic Blacks would be in the "Black" category.

I've been unable to find demographic crime data from Canada, but Blacks account for only 2% of the population. But US crime statistics alone would seem to indicate that cultural factors are far more important than gun availability as far as homicide rates go.




(waits to get flamed...)
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Here's the canadian population by ethnic origin.

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/demo26a.htm

I haven't found stats of homicides by ethnic origin.
 
Orwell said:
I'll bet that most deaths by gunshot happen in cities, since the overwhelming majority of Canada's population lives in them. I think there is no overall significant difference between city population densities in Canada and in the US. Modern cities north american cities all tend to look alike.
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Just a side note: I've been to almost every major U.S. city, including what are I believe the three largest: L.A., New York, and Chicago. I also have visited Toronto, which staggered me with its size. And most particularly, the huge concentrations of high-rise apartment buildings in what I thought were really weird places around the city. New York may be on the whole more densely populated, but I have never seen anything like Toronto. Ever.
 
WildCat said:
(waits to get flamed...)
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I'd love to, WildCat, but not this time 'cause I think you and Shanek are on to something. I think gun violence is exacerbated in large cities due to drugs, unemployment, lack of education, lack of a strong family structure, etc.

It would be interesting to compare crime statistics from similar population density areas in both countries.
 
I think you'll find that the large majority of gun deaths in Canada occur in rural areas. Gun Homicide is not a big deal in Canada, suicide is, particularly in our First Nations. Living conditions on Canadian reserves are a disgrace; the prairie provinces outside the 4 major urban areas resemble a third world country.
A young aboriginal male (15-25) is 19 times more likely to die by suicide than is a non-a.

In our rural and Northern areas guns are easily obtained, since they are in daily use as tools, and often shared among families (in spite of the gun control rules - here's where that 900 square kilometer per mountie comes in).

If you want a back of the cigarette pack comparison, about 90% of our people are within 100 miles of the southern border, at 4000 miles the world's longest undefended border.
The difference in area between the US and Canada is (wave-hand) 400,00 square miles. So we have a Northern territory the size of the US with 3M people in it. more than a square mile per person.
 
shanek said:
Thought:

The US has an estimated 295,734,134 people over an area of 9,631,418 sq. km. That's about 30.7 people per square kilometer. Also, the US has 43 cities with a population greater than 1,000,000, 7 of which have a population greater than 10,000,000.

Canada has an estimated 32,805,041 people over an area of 9,984,670 sq. km., or about 3.2 people per square kilometer. In Canada, only 6 cities have a population greater than 1,000,000, none of which have a population greater than 10,000,000.

Could Canada's rates be much lower because they're so sparsely populated compared to the US?
Click to expand...

shanek said:
I don't think cross-cultural comparisons are valid.
Source
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