GSIC AUDIO

[KRAMER]

As Mr. Anda has led us to a place wherein we had no choice but to reject his claim, we have accepted an identical claim from an applicant who is also a forum member, whose solitary goal matched ours to the letter: to see this claim (and the GSIC chip) tested under controlled conditions.

The strictest protocol will be in place for this test, based upon the original "Steven Howard Protocol" which was submitted by Mr. Anda and then, upon unconditional acceptance by Randi, withdrawn by the applicant for reasons that will, with any luck, forever remain a mystery.

The applicant will post said protocol here for forum review before I submit it to Randi. As this application was submitted by a skeptic and NOT by a believer, it is more vital than ever that the test performed be concrete and air-tight.

I have no doubt that a protocol will be agreed to within days, and a test performed within weeks.

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Good to know. Bad for the audiophile forums, it would be a heads up (wishful thinking) if Wellfed (known in some of those forums) was proved wrong.

 

[LostAngeles]

I've googled my e-mail and searched the hard drive on this machine. Somehow, someway, I did not make a copy of this and if I did, it might be on the older hardrive sitting in a box, somewhere on my bedroom. Nevertheless, since it was based off of the "Steven Howard" protocol, I can replicate here to the best of my memory, but without using fun quotation marks and subscripts.

I don't have class again tonight. I get to be lazy. (see more on this below.)

Materials needed:

Eleven new CDs. These can include multiple copies of the same disc, or not.

One GSIC device. (The "real device")

One Playstation Memory Card(The "dummy device")

A paper lunch bag.

People involved:
The applicant (A) and two testers (T1 and T2).

The setup:

Two completely separate rooms. A is in one room with the stereo equipment, where he remains throughout the test. T1 is in the other room, where he remains throughout the test. T2 will move back and forth between the two rooms.

Demonstration:

A and T2 unseal the first CD. A does whatever non-GSIC voodoo he wants to the CD and then listens to it. T2 shows A the dummy device, places it into the container, places the container on top of the CD player and plays it, exactly as if applying the GSIC treatment. A listens to the CD again and verifies that the sound is unchanged. T2 now shows A the real device, places it into the container, and so on, repeating the process. A listens to the CD and confirms that the sound is improved. T2 takes the container and both devices to T1.

The experiment:

The experiment consists of ten rounds. Each round proceeds as follows:

In the listening room, A and T2 unseal the next CD and A does whatever he wants to it, then listens to it.

Meanwhile in the other room, T1 flips a coin. If it lands heads, he puts the real device into the container; if it's tails, the dummy device goes in instead. He records his choice and signals to T2, who comes in and picks up the container.

T2 takes the container back to the listening room, places it on top of the CD player, and plays the disc. He removes the container, A listens to the CD again and decides whether it sounds any different. His choice is recorded and then T2 returns the container to T1.

After ten iterations, A's answers are compared with T1's. If all ten match, A has been successful.

If you read the thread "The Mind of A (Mebbe) Applicant," you'll notice that I did try to fiddle with it to replicate the normal GSIC conditions. Sadly, I can't be sure that flipping a small box over onto the stereo won't make a different sound when the GSIC chip lands compared to when the PS memory card lands, not to mention the unblinding of T2.

As far as the device on which the CDs will be played, I humbly submit my Discman or my laptop. The home stereo is neither mine, is starting to suck severely, and it would require cleaning my apartment. (Although, if anyone wants to donate maid service? Anyone? Any... damn. )

And now, when to do this test. I promised I would bring this up and I am. I advise you all to get out a bib, and your eatin' tools. This is going to be savory.

I presume Mr. Anda works a standard, U.S. 40 hour week. Mr. Anda couldn't be tested during such and such times because of reunions and kid's soccer games and graduations.

Here's my schedule:

On Mondays and Wednesdays, I have Calculus II Honors, followed by an hour and a half break before work, during which I do my language lab. I have a meeting after class on Wednesdays for the Honors section. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, I have that same class, followed directly by Anthropology Honors. Then I go directly to work.

I work until five Monday through Friday, for a total of about 20 or so hours a week, give or take, generally give.

Monday and Wednesday nights, I get to go home, feed the cats, snack, and go back to class for 2 and a half hours each night. Friday mornings, I have my club meeting of which I am the vice president. Saturdays, I have Linear Algebra.

I'm carrying 16 credits, which equates to 16 hours, plus 20 hours of work. Not counting the outside work I do for class and club, that's only a few hours less than Mr. Anda's presumed schedule, however, you'll note I have but one free day in the whole week.

Finals start the first week June and are followed by Jury Duty. I've applied for a short summer program at UCLA and I'm putting in for internships.

I also have a boyfriend and two very cute little kitties at home.

I'm tired. I'm cranky. I want a goddamned weekend.

I am more than happy and willing to be tested some upcoming Sunday.

In short, screw you Mr. Anda, screw you.

 

[LostAngeles]

Was it zaayr who just mentioned it? Can you see that this is clearly my "lazy day" since I'm not going to double check?

You can do all this voodoo with the GSIC and such for better sound, or you can get an iPod. I'd imagine the price would be similar.

Why bother when there's a new, better medium out?

But, then, I'm not an audiophile.

 

[Timothy]

Just curious. What's the point?

You're proposing doing a controlled test of a purported high end audio device on a Walkman? Or a laptop? I assume that you'll be using a pair of $3 earbuds for the listening as well?

No one with any critical thinking skills could possibly take the results of this test seriously, other than to show that a test can be done. As long as you're going to this much trouble simply to one-up Mr. Anda, at least be honest about your motives.

- Timothy

 

[LostAngeles]

Just curious. What's the point?

You're proposing doing a controlled test of a purported high end audio device on a Walkman? Or a laptop? I assume that you'll be using a pair of $3 earbuds for the listening as well?

No one with any critical thinking skills could possibly take the results of this test seriously, other than to show that a test can be done. As long as you're going to this much trouble simply to one-up Mr. Anda, at least be honest about your motives.

- Timothy

Please see thread linked in my initial post. All motives are out in the open. Thread is linked for such purposes.

And I don't remember how much I paid for the earbuds. Interesting question except for the fact the GSIC is supposed to work on any system and improve the sound quality of the CD itself. I'm just volunteering what's available. If someone else in the area wants to help out on this aspect, by all means, I'd appreciate it.

 

[TjW]

Just curious. What's the point?

You're proposing doing a controlled test of a purported high end audio device on a Walkman? Or a laptop? I assume that you'll be using a pair of $3 earbuds for the listening as well?

No one with any critical thinking skills could possibly take the results of this test seriously, other than to show that a test can be done. As long as you're going to this much trouble simply to one-up Mr. Anda, at least be honest about your motives.

- Timothy

Well, actually, Mr Anda claimed in one of the recent posts in the Audio Critic thread, that one of his friends detected the difference in a car audio system.
Of course, his friend probably drives a nicer car than I do.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

I'd volunteer my house for the test, but I'm all the way down in The OC.

 

[LostAngeles]

I'd volunteer my house for the test, but I'm all the way down in The OC.

For the record, you were mentally nuked for calling it "The OC."

 

[Lisa Simpson]

For the record, you were mentally nuked for calling it "The OC."

I've called it that long before the idiotic TV show of the same name.

When I was a kid, we lived "behind the Orange curtain". Back before local TV stations even bothered to cover news events in Orange County.

 

[LostAngeles]

I've called it that long before the idiotic TV show of the same name.

When I was a kid, we lived "behind the Orange curtain". Back before local TV stations even bothered to cover news events in Orange County.

You brought back the trauma of having to have that in the background while waiting for the Star Wars Ep. III trailer.

And of the time Peter Gallagher's eyebrows ate my dog.

Edit: Whoops, let me close this.

[/silly][serious OT stuff]

 

[SezMe]

How about doing the test at CFI - West and get the participation of their IIG (Independent Investigations Group). After all, they are a preliminary testing locaton for Randi. Might up the credibility of the test.

 

[LostAngeles]

How about doing the test at CFI - West and get the participation of their IIG (Independent Investigations Group). After all, they are a preliminary testing locaton for Randi. Might up the credibility of the test.

Sounds good to me.

If we have to "up the credibility" of this, fine, so long as it's reasonable and not, "Lost, you have jump up and down three times, put your right hand in, take your right hand out, do the hokey pokey and put the GSIC on the player," or "You're going to have to spend X to make this credible by buying Y player."

 

[jmercer]

Materials needed:

Eleven new CDs. These can include multiple copies of the same disc, or not.

[snip]

I also have a boyfriend and two very cute little kitties at home.

I'm tired. I'm cranky. I want a goddamned weekend.

I am more than happy and willing to be tested some upcoming Sunday.

In short, screw you Mr. Anda, screw you.

Hey, LA - I'm confused about the "multiple copies of the same disk or not" thing. How will you be able to tell a qualitative difference between disks if you don't have them playing the same music? I've listened to tracks recorded at 44 Khz (Mhz? Don't remember right this second) and 22 Khz, and after switching back and forth, was able to tell the difference. I don't think I could have done that if the track at 44 was Ravel's Bolero and the track at 22 was Ozzie Osborne (Pick your song).

Also, the boyfriends a problem, but the kitties can stay.

 

[BPSCG]

I don't understand the purpose of this.

I'm a skeptic, too, or at least I like to think so. I'm certainly skeptical about voodoo devices that allegedly improve your stereo's sound, and I've owned some serious high-end equipment in my lifetime - Klipschorns, if that speaks to anyone.

But hell, my hearing stinks. I've had tinnitus for twenty years, so I hear a constant 10 KHz (I'm guessing) tone in my head. I'm a joy at noisy parties: "Huh?" "Excuse me?" "Sorry, I didn't catch that." "Yes, I am listening, I just can't @#$%ing understand you with all the noise, okay?"

So I take the GSIC test and flunk miserably. What does it prove?

1) I deliberately tanked the test in the interest of torpedoing voodoo audio devices and their high priests;
2) My hearing stinks, so I couldn't hear the difference even if it existed;
3) There's no difference to be heard.

Could be all three. But even for someone with perfect hearing (LostAngeles?) 1) and 3) are certainly possibilities. If the test isn't performed by someone who truly believes he can do it, I submit it's a "poisoned well" in that it only proves that someone who doesn't believe the device works proves his preconception.

 

[Steven Howard]

Hey, LA - I'm confused about the "multiple copies of the same disk or not" thing. How will you be able to tell a qualitative difference between disks if you don't have them playing the same music?

Since this thing's got my name on it, I might as well answer this.

In my protocol, the claimant is never comparing two CDs "side by side." It's always a "before and after" comparison:

Step 1. Listen to the untreated CD.

Step 2. Treat it with the "real" chip or the "fake" chip.

Step 3. Listen to it again and say whether you think it sounds better or not.

As long as I'm here, a couple other thoughts about the protocol and its strengths and weaknesses.

I tried to come up with a process that matched as closely as possible the experience a real user would have with the chip. I figure most people would treat a CD they own that they've already listened to, rather than going out and buying a second copy of the same CD.

Second, I wanted to allow the claimant and/or testers to handle the CDs without the possibility of accidentally or intentionally creating a detectable difference between two copies. Several people objected to the "treat with Walker Audio Vivid" step in Wellfed's first proposed protocol on those grounds. If the claimant doesn't insist on any sort of "pretreatment" of the CDs, this isn't much of a benefit.

The major weakness in my protocol is that it's trivially easy to cheat if T1 (who chooses which chip to use) is in cahoots with the claimant.

It's also necessary to guard against the possibility that the claimant could somehow distinguish between the GSIC and the placebo chip during the "treatment" phase. I didn't suggest using a "spent" chip as the dummy for two reasons: 1.) as Randi and others quickly pointed out, if the test is a failure the claimant can weasel out by saying the "spent" chip still had some residual mojo in it; and 2.) more to the point, I didn't remember that the GSIC supposedly had limited uses.

In conclusion, "Residual Mojo" would be an excellent name for a band.

 

[-42-]

Just curious. What's the point?

Even though LA is a skeptic, do you think they REALLY WANT to hear a difference? Of course they do, LA wants the chip to work, believe me. LA would love the chip to work.

She'd be a million bucks richer.

If I took the test, I'd want it to work too and take every measure to ensure ideal conditions so that it could work - certainly including any trickery or protocol elements that would increase my odds of winning.

As far as the test, all it will show is that LA could not tell the difference between a treated and untreated CD at that particular time. The same would be the case with the 'audio critic'.

Do you think a skeptic would purposefully thwart a test, where if they won they'd be $1Million smackers richer? Hell no.

 

[Gr8wight]

I think that we have to recognise the fundamental difference between this test and the Wellfed test.

In the case of Wellfed, we were talking about testing the claim of someone who believes he can hear the difference between an untreated and a treated disc. We are testing the person.

In the case of Lost Angeles, we are talking about someone who has no idea if she can hear the difference between an untreated and a treated disc. She has never tried. So we are talking about a test of the GSIC device, not the person. In this case, I think that almost all of Piano Teacher's concerns are valid, and I would strongly recommend everyone go back to the Audio Critic thread, and carefully read all of PT's posts very carefully.

::ducks and runs::

 

[-42-]

In the case of Lost Angeles, we are talking about someone who has no idea if she can hear the difference between an untreated and a treated disc. She has never tried. So we are talking about a test of the GSIC device, not the person.

Are they?

I thought it was simply a test as of LA (who happens to not know if it works or not) could hear a difference between a treated and untreated disc at the time the test was run.

Does her application state that the device itself works and that is what she desires to be tested? Haven't seen it yet.

 

[Wellfed]

...

The strictest protocol will be in place for this test, based upon the original "Steven Howard Protocol" which was submitted by Mr. Anda and then, upon unconditional acceptance by Randi, withdrawn by the applicant for reasons that will, with any luck, forever remain a mystery.

...

How could I withdraw a protocol that I had never agreed to?

You are going to need a great deal of luck for your deception to forever remain a mystery.