• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Group of doctors call on Columbia Univ. to oust Dr. Oz

shemp

a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
69,470
Location
The U.S., a wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Group of doctors call on Columbia Univ. to oust Dr. Oz


A group of 10 prominent doctors from around the country is taking aim at Dr. Mehmet Oz, calling on Columbia University to oust the popular TV doctor from its faculty.

In a letter addressed to Dr. Lee Goldman, Columbia's Dean of the Faculties of Health Sciences and Medicine, they write:

"We are surprised and dismayed that Columbia University's College of Physicians and Surgeons would permit Dr. Mehmet Oz to occupy a faculty appointment, let alone a senior administrative position in the Department of Surgery.

"As described here and here, as well as in other publications, Dr. Oz has repeatedly shown disdain for science and for evidence-based medicine, as well as baseless and relentless opposition to the genetic engineering of food crops. Worst of all, he has manifested an egregious lack of integrity by promoting quack treatments and cures in the interest of personal financial gain.

"Thus, Dr. Oz is guilty of either outrageous conflicts of interest or flawed judgements about what constitutes appropriate medical treatments, or both. Whatever the nature of his pathology, members of the public are being misled and endangered, which makes Dr. Oz's presence on the faculty of a prestigious medical institution unacceptable."

The author of the letter, Dr. Henry I. Miller of the Hoover Institution at Stanford University, told CBS News that in his view, "a person who endangers patients and is a menace to public health should not be on the faculty of a prestigious medical institution."

I say they're not going far enough. Is there any grounds for the state to revoke his medical license?
 
I'm pretty sure there's a nutritional supplement which will clear this whole kerfuffle up.
 
Group of doctors call on Columbia Univ. to oust Dr. Oz




I say they're not going far enough. Is there any grounds for the state to revoke his medical license?

I don't know the specifics. Giving medical advice to people who you have not professionally adequately determined would not be harmed by it? Fraud as a result of arranging personal monetary compensation for providing untruthful medical recommendations?

I think that most MDs are obligated to prove that they adequately diagnosed the medical condition of a patient before providing a particular intervention. I don't know how the University or law viewa someone providing a general recommendation to people who are not paying for the medical advice. On the one hand, I think that an MD has a right to make a general, fairly innocuous suggestion ("eat more vegetables") to a general population. On the other hand, I don't think that an MD has a right to make a fraudulent or very dangerous recommendation to that same group ("wear foil hats to avoid being kidnapped by aliens and drink a cup of bleach a day to keep away infections.").
 
What's really sad is that Oz, like Ben Carson, is by all accounts an excellent surgeon. I've long believed that doctors and engineers should stick to doctoring and engineering and stay the heck out of science and politics, which they consistently muck up.
 
What's really sad is that Oz, like Ben Carson, is by all accounts an excellent surgeon. I've long believed that doctors and engineers should stick to doctoring and engineering and stay the heck out of science and politics, which they consistently muck up.

I think sorcerers, witches, warlocks and shaman could stay the heck out of both medicine. In fact, they should stay clear of all science.

Contrary to woo-woo belief, magic is not technology.

If a doctor has skill in surgery but ignorance of biochemistry, then maybe he should continue to be a surgeon. Surgery depends on the skill of ones hands and eyes. However, this is a narrow skill.

A surgeon, even a good surgeon,, who doesn't understand the basics of chemistry should not claim any expertise. Such a surgeon is just a manual technician. Maybe an good automobile mechanic could replace him in an emergency.

Doctor Oz has been misrepresenting himself as an expert on scientific medicine. He basically has been using his license to pretend to represent actual scientific practice.

A auto mechanic can be very good in his field and still be conning people. In fact, I suspect that it is very common. If an auto mechanic claims that a person needs a new engine when the owner doesn't need one, then that is dishonest. If the mechanic replaces the defective engine with an even more defective engine, then he is even more dishonest.

If this 'good mechanic' lays his hands on the automobile and prays without doing anything, then I suggest the automobile owner shouldn't pay for his services. If the mechanic claims to have replaced the engine but really only chanted the repair mantra, then I suggest this could be the basis of a valid lawsuit.

Most mechanics who do this aren't caught. I conjecture this is common practice. I conjecture that the majority of mechanics who do this are actually quite knowledgeable about automobiles.

Mystic healers should stop incorporating scientific jargon into their sales pitch. Many of these mystic healers (MH) like to use scientific words when presenting their magic. They refer to 'electromagnetic fields' when referring to chakra. They talk about information when they talk about homeopathy. By doing so, they are claiming that their magical spells have some empirical basis with rational data analysis. Their MD degree gives them false credibility with regard to having a rational basis of their superstition.

A doctor should be able to recommend a 'folk medicine' on occasion. I know of several 'traditional remedies' that on occasion may be quite well. However, he should be required to specifically say that this is a traditional remedy with an as of yet undetermined mechanism. He shouldn't be allowed to recommend a tincture without any medication in it on the basis of these electromagnetic fields that no engineer can possibly detect. He shouldn't present myths that phonetically resemble scientific principle.

A surgeon so ignorant of chemistry that he believes homeopathic claims should not be allowed to prescribe medicine that comes after the surgery. I think that is really the issue.

Surgeons are generally not permitted to make the initial recommendation for surgery. Generally, other doctors recommend surgery. The surgeon often acts as a pair of hands and a pair of eyes. He does not have to be an expert on diet. If a person has surgery and given a homeopathic remedy, rather than an antibiotic, then that patient has a good reason to complain. Especially if he doesn't know what the difference is.

A 'chairman of surgery' should have a scientific background far beyond manual skill. The program has involves science beyond cutting flesh neatly. So I think firing him from the chair position is entirely appropriate. I am not sure about taking away his medical degree. However, it is alright by me if he is not allowed to do anything but surgery.

I personally would prefer another surgeon who has the ability to reason.

I guess that I am saying: bring back 'House' ! It was the best show on TV!
 
Orac has taken this on and the comments are good too: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/04/17/americas-quack-dissected-yet-again/

Short story, Oz is a tenured professor at Columbia so he has protected status. He is not doing anything that is in violation of his academic post. He is a megalomaniacal knob dispensing bad health advice which is a separate issue from his "other job" and different oversight to address this.

Este
 
Orac has taken this on and the comments are good too: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2015/04/17/americas-quack-dissected-yet-again/

Short story, Oz is a tenured professor at Columbia so he has protected status. He is not doing anything that is in violation of his academic post. He is a megalomaniacal knob dispensing bad health advice which is a separate issue from his "other job" and different oversight to address this.

Este

It's certainly hard to remove a tenured professor from his professorship absent some direct and egregious violation of the duties of his job. But these rigorous protections don't generally extend to administrative appointments as well. I don't see any reason he couldn't be removed from whatever administrative positions he has, while still maintaining his tenured professorship.
 
Oz' administrative post is for "integrative medicine" which is code for woo so he certainly isn't doing anything in violation of that nonsense. I agree with Orac, it's a douche move to try and get someone sacked because you don't agree with their legal extracurricular activities. And the group that did it doesn't exactly have a solid footing in the science world.

Este
 
Oz' administrative post is for "integrative medicine" which is code for woo so he certainly isn't doing anything in violation of that nonsense. I agree with Orac, it's a douche move to try and get someone sacked because you don't agree with their legal extracurricular activities. And the group that did it doesn't exactly have a solid footing in the science world.

Este

Losing the post of vice-chair of the department of surgery isn't the same as getting sacked, not by a long shot. Such a position is inherently political, and so I don't see any problems with political considerations leading to his removal from that position. The only difference between this case and countless others is that the politics are external, rather than purely internal.
 

Back
Top Bottom