Grimoire for The Apprentice Wizard by Oberon Zell

[themyst]

Does anyone know anything about "Grimoire for The Apprentice Wizard" by Oberon Zell?

'They' say that the book is a collection of spells and histories/biographies of famous magicians. So I know that the spells and stuff are most likely* a bunch of cr@p but I was wondering if any of the histories, or if any of it is has any fact what-so-ever.

Someone at the office wants to buy it and I was just wondering.


* Can't say it is all crap until each and every spell has been tested in a control environment but my hypothesis is that it is crap.

 

[l0rca]

* Can't say it is all crap until each and every spell has been tested in a control environment but my hypothesis is that it is crap.

This is a good rule, in a way, relating to the problem of induction, and by way of axiom confidence, solved by reductionism.

Don't worry about debunking every claim out there, every proposed supernatural thing. Concern yourself with discovery of the universe and the principles behind it. It is far easier to wave away a majority of woo-like claims away with a strong understanding and oration of the universe that science has come to acknowledge, and the philosophical arguments against specific violations of these observations and our best understandings; than it is to engage each claim in a battle of evidence and previous research. The latter would make us all mad.

Let the fools waste their money. Then make 'em feel dumb when you naturally explain their "magic".

 

[themyst]

I agree but I was wondering if I could use it as a history book of 'magick' from the woowoos point of view.

 

[Beerina]

It's up to those who make incredible claims to prove them, in this case, the book authors or editors who claim these are real spells and magic.

Of course, it couldn't be snake oil and swamp land promises, could it? They couldn't be all about taking the money and running, could they? Nah.

 

[Dancing David]

When it comes to magick, read Crowley's Magick in Theory and Practice, it is a great read, he deliberately puts things in to drive the weak minded wild and crazy. There are many histories of the Golden Dawn and many biographies of Crowley. Israel Regardie is Crolwey's sort of magical child in many ways. Dione Fortune in a hoot to read.

The theory from Crowley, is that changes in consciousness create changes in perception and therefore reality. But then he admitted to being a charlatan and that if he shouted the truth from the rooftops no one would listen either. The OTO after Crowley is interesting but not as cool.

Drawing Down the Moon is a good history of the neo-pagan movement in the USA.

Much of traditional european magic goes back to John Dee and some grimoire written by someone whose name escapes me.(Albert something?)

The point to traditional magic is this:

sympathetic magic; the use of like things to create an effect. IE herbalism and rain magic.

evokation: the summoning of demons to have them do your will

evokation therough invokation: the summoning of angels through the invoking of a god to force the angel to do your will


Sorry about the spelling, in is invoke and evoke but I know I am spelling it wrong.

If youw ant something weakminded to look through, try any number of websites and witchctaft.

I am thinking that Oberon Zell must be related to Morning Glory Zell of the Church of All Worlds.


L. Ron Hubbard stole much from Crowley and the OTO, who had stolen it from many sources.

 

[slingblade]

I am thinking that Oberon Zell must be related to Morning Glory Zell of the Church of All Worlds.

Well, in that case, one might want to also read (or re-read) Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land.

I mean, just knowing that Zell's "church" is based on a work of science fiction.....oh, L. Ron, you guys should have just stayed in the bar!

 

[themyst]

Thanks, I have already read most those books already on my path*. I was more interested in the history around the "magic" than the actual "magic" itself.

*Christian, Pagan with Wiccan inclinations, Pagan without Wiccan cr@p, Chaos magician, Skeptic.

 

[slingblade]

[derail for joke]

Q: How many Discordians does it take to change a lightbulb?




A: A bathtub full of brightly-colored East German machine parts.

[/derail]

 

[Dancing David]

Thanks, I have already read most those books already on my path*. I was more interested in the history around the "magic" than the actual "magic" itself.

*Christian, Pagan with Wiccan inclinations, Pagan without Wiccan cr@p, Chaos magician, Skeptic.

I was initiated into the craft by the usual convineint high preistess, I am a galloping sceptic.

I am a pagan buddhist nihilist.

i would look for John Dee and Albert Magus(sp?). Crowley spoon fed the Gardners, the Golden is the source for most of those that aren't neopagans.

my NSHO

 

[Dancing David]

[derail for joke]

Q: How many Discordians does it take to change a lightbulb?




A: A bathtub full of brightly-colored East German machine parts.

[/derail]

How many surrealists does it take to change a lightbulb?


The fish.




Thanks to Larry Lujack at WLS.

 

[Z]

Yes, Oberon Zell and Morning Glory Zell are partners. My wife recently met Oberon at a Correllian ritual in Washington State last month. From his appearances, he goes for all-out effect, right down to the pointy hat.

I know among Wiccans, he's one of the most widely respected and loved individuals out there, and he never pushes CAW (which has effectively fallen apart since the turn of the century) on anyone - in fact, he was just made an honorary Correllian by Rev. Don Lewis High-Correll last month! lol

Of course, this could all be one charlatan discussing another (figuratively speaking)...

I know nothing abut the man myself, other than what I've gleaned from others; my opinion is that he's a strong central personality figure, but a fairly benign one - like a favorite uncle that every branch of the family would vie for time to have come live with them, as opposed to one begrudgingly accepted and passed from home to home like a hot potato. How qualified he is to discuss the history of Paganism, I couldn't say - except to say he's personally met a majority of Wiccan figureheads and seems well-versed with every branch of Wiccan and many other Pagan practices as well. And that he lives essentially on the good will of others. Oh, and that Morning Glory is apparently dying of cancer.

My suggestion - buy the book; if you don't like it, sell it (via eBay or Amazon or whatever) to someone else. Even if you lose a buck or two on it, it's not a big thing.

I strongly advise against any books by Silver Ravenwolf, due to her tendency to be very two-faced and back-stabbing in her dealings with others. Ray Buckland wasn't a bad resource, but I don't recall if he ever wrote any history books. DJ Conway might have something useful, but I'm not sure.

Crowley's works might contain better historical context, but are generally rejected by modern Wiccans - Crowley was more of a ceremonial mage than a Wiccan.

Just some small advice...

 

[sophia8]

Don't know his book, but Zell deserves some kudos just for his piece We Are The Other People:

"Ding-dong!" goes the doorbell. Is it Avon calling? Or perhaps Ed McMahon with my three million dollars? No, it's Yahweh's Witlesses again, just wanting to have a nice little chat about the Bible...

Boy, did they ever come to the wrong house! So we invite them in: "Enter freely and of your own will..." (Hey, it's Sunday morning, nothing much going on, why not have a little entertainment?) Diane and I amuse ourselves watching their expressions as they check out the living room: great horned owl on the back of my chair; ceremonial masks and medicine skulls of dragons and unicorns on the wall; crystals, wands, staffs, swords; lots of Goddess figures and several altars; boa constrictors draped in amorous embrace over the elkhorn; white doves sitting in the hanging planters; cats and weasels underfoot; iron dragon snorting steam atop the wood stove; posters and paintings of wizards and dinosaurs and witchy women, some proudly naked; sculptures of mythological beasties and lots more dinosaurs; warp six on the star-filled viewscreen of my computer; a five-foot model of the USS Enterprise and the skeleton of a plesiosaur hanging from the ceiling; very, very many books, most of them dealing with obviously weird subjects... To say nothing of the great horned owl perched on the back of my chair and the Unicorn grazing in the front yard. You know; early Addams Family decor.

And then, of course, it being late in the morning, you can expect Morning Glory to come wandering out naked, looking for her wake-up cup of tea. Morning Glory naked is a truly impressive sight, and the Witlesses look as if she'd set titties on stun as they stand immobilized, hands clasped over their genitals. With the stage set and all the actors in place, the show is ready to begin....

 

[Z]

Don't know his book, but Zell deserves some kudos just for his piece We Are The Other People:

Yes - that piece was widely distributed among the Pagan communities after he wrote it. It's a great work, really.

There's no doubt the man is a good writer, if somewhat strange. He's charismatic, witty, and generally good-natured. And he basically makes his living off of being who he is. But I think the question is, is his book accurate and factually correct? This usually isn't a question that pagans or Wiccans ask - accuracy and facts are a malleable resource, in the New Age mindset of course. And that's one question I really can't answer.

 

[streamlet]

This book is clearly written for the post-Potter crowd, but it's the best of those that I've read. It skims the surface of lots of woo topics and also some 'cool science' like astronomy, nature, weird animals, etc, and some "self esteem and teen life" stuff. For a kid who's determined to go woo I'd say you could do a lot worse.

I keep my copy around for reference.

It's not history book. I haven't found any good books on the "history of magic."

 

[kmortis]

Yes, Oberon Zell and Morning Glory Zell are partners. My wife recently met Oberon at a Correllian ritual in Washington State last month. From his appearances, he goes for all-out effect, right down to the pointy hat.

I know among Wiccans, he's one of the most widely respected and loved individuals out there, and he never pushes CAW (which has effectively fallen apart since the turn of the century) on anyone - in fact, he was just made an honorary Correllian by Rev. Don Lewis High-Correll last month! lol

Of course, this could all be one charlatan discussing another (figuratively speaking)...

I know nothing abut the man myself, other than what I've gleaned from others; my opinion is that he's a strong central personality figure, but a fairly benign one - like a favorite uncle that every branch of the family would vie for time to have come live with them, as opposed to one begrudgingly accepted and passed from home to home like a hot potato. How qualified he is to discuss the history of Paganism, I couldn't say - except to say he's personally met a majority of Wiccan figureheads and seems well-versed with every branch of Wiccan and many other Pagan practices as well. And that he lives essentially on the good will of others. Oh, and that Morning Glory is apparently dying of cancer.

My suggestion - buy the book; if you don't like it, sell it (via eBay or Amazon or whatever) to someone else. Even if you lose a buck or two on it, it's not a big thing.

I strongly advise against any books by Silver Ravenwolf, due to her tendency to be very two-faced and back-stabbing in her dealings with others. Ray Buckland wasn't a bad resource, but I don't recall if he ever wrote any history books. DJ Conway might have something useful, but I'm not sure.

Crowley's works might contain better historical context, but are generally rejected by modern Wiccans - Crowley was more of a ceremonial mage than a Wiccan.

Just some small advice...

To add,
He's a very personable gentleman. I had the honor to meet him a few years ago. He's very funny, and has been around the neo-pagan movement since almost it's inception. Plus, he's a fairly good sculptor. Has a nice Cthulhu plaque that some one is using as their avatar here.

To the Church of All Worlds, Oberon started it after reading "Stranger in a Strange Land". He said that he was so inspired by the concept, that he wanted to have something like it.

I agree with Z's assessments of the books. I'd just add the Farrars. Stewart, Janet and Gavin Bone are also rather influential in the Wiccan community. Stewart and Janet literally wrote the Wiccan Bible (my copy is the Official Discordian version, as proclaimed by Gavin )

For "magickal theory", no one beats Crowley. Issac Bonewitz (of AdF fame) wrote a rather decent summary in "Real Magic". If I'm not mistaken, Dancing David has read it, cause his definitions are very familary.

 

[Dancing David]

For "magickal theory", no one beats Crowley. Issac Bonewitz (of AdF fame) wrote a rather decent summary in "Real Magic". If I'm not mistaken, Dancing David has read it, cause his definitions are very familary.

I think I read Real Magic back in 1980, but I don't remember much. I read Crowly repeatedly, mainlt Magick in Theory and Practice and then Starhawk and all the neopagans in the early eighties. The key to Crowley is to reread the most obnoxious stuff twive, like when he compares a female to a brigands cavern, he usualy hides his deepest stuff in his most obnoxious prose.

I never did figure out the sexuakl code in the Goetis, i figure that it is a manual for sex magick, I am sure the OTO knows, esp the eleventh depgree.

Bonewitz is cool, I remember when he summoned Abadon on Tom Snyder's show.

 

[kmortis]

Ever wept or dashed a thousand kim? Killed a perfect child?

I used to judge occult/new aged book stores by the way they treated Uncle Al. If they ignored him or hid him away, I never again darkened the door; if they promoted him vigorously, I ran, not walked, the opposite direction; if they acknowledged him for the trickster he was, I gave them my business. It severely limited my venues, I can tell you.

I never had the chance to meet Issac. From my former associates that did, he sounds like a guy I'da liked.

Oberon tells a story of when he was in college and they'd started a student pagan group. The local Christian Student group decided to protest them during one of their Sabbat rituals (I think it was Samhain, but I'm not totally sure). One of the pagans was on the student newspaper, so Tim (as Oberon was known at the time) asked the reporter to go out and "interview" the protesters to see what the beef was.

"They're upset because they think we're Satanists doing a healing ritual for our Satanic Master, Aleister Crowley."

"But Crowley's been dead for years."

So, Oberon went out, at the end of the ritual, and told the protesters that "the ritual was a success, Master Crowley would not die any time soon."

I once did a ritual where we "invoked" Eris. The calling of the goddess was on a cell phone, and she told us she couldn't appear cause she was in jail for drug possession, could we send bail?

 

[Dancing David]

Ever wept or dashed a thousand kim? Killed a perfect child?

I am not a pedophile like Crowley.

I used to judge occult/new aged book stores by the way they treated Uncle Al. If they ignored him or hid him away, I never again darkened the door; if they promoted him vigorously, I ran, not walked, the opposite direction; if they acknowledged him for the trickster he was, I gave them my business. It severely limited my venues, I can tell you.

Trickster for sure, i would say don't loan money to the strcit promoters. They are fun to party with, if you can keep up with them.

I never had the chance to meet Issac. From my former associates that did, he sounds like a guy I'da liked.

Oberon tells a story of when he was in college and they'd started a student pagan group. The local Christian Student group decided to protest them during one of their Sabbat rituals (I think it was Samhain, but I'm not totally sure). One of the pagans was on the student newspaper, so Tim (as Oberon was known at the time) asked the reporter to go out and "interview" the protesters to see what the beef was.

"They're upset because they think we're Satanists doing a healing ritual for our Satanic Master, Aleister Crowley."

"But Crowley's been dead for years."

So, Oberon went out, at the end of the ritual, and told the protesters that "the ritual was a success, Master Crowley would not die any time soon."

I once did a ritual where we "invoked" Eris. The calling of the goddess was on a cell phone, and she told us she couldn't appear cause she was in jail for drug possession, could we send bail?

You have reached the Eris, Mother of Titans Bail me Out Hotline. Please mail cash in any denominations and you will be granted the greatest wisdon available, comes in a variety of styles and colors. For your conviniece we also accept credit cards and second mortages. Eris really appreciates all your help.